Needing advice for cutting in new access track up a slope

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

G'day everyone! Really appreciate everyone's time and experience here in reading and replying to my 'essay' below...

I tried looking and using searchwords here on the forums to find some already shared guidance, but none found yet that can give a clear indication on what's best practice for my job sadly.

I live/work on a rural property and need to make an access track up our 20 to 50 degree slope. I am very inexperienced yet damn keen - Though I have no interest in rushing and hurting or killing either my machine, myself, or both.

Looking to learn best methods, techniques, and appropriate processes over time.

My tools are: A CAT 308-E2 with dozer blade, tilt-mud bucket, and 300mm GP bucket. Also have a tiny T313 'TYM' tractor with a 4-in-1 bucket...

Going to slash the hill side first (slasher attachment on digger) and look for what gradient lines may be best to follow. It would be preferable that the track is 2WD accessible. And I figure that the more I can follow a contour line and only cross it up (or down..?) the better... The length I have to work with would be approx 150m of hillside, with a relative height of 30-40m (from the point of driveway where Ill be joining the track to existing access). A few small natural gullies that channel rainwater interspersed also in the hill side (hoping to dodge them if I can...).

Degree of slope ranges from 20 to 30 degrees on average, with some few spots high up would be 40, and maybe even 50 degrees in some places as the hillside crests.

Starter questions below:

1. Any Youtube vids or channels worth sharing that have operators giving explanations on where/how/why they are cutting a track in a steep slope,etc?

2. Should I cut the track starting from the top working down, or from the bottom working up? I'd prefer the latter as the track will come off our bottom driveway.

3. Cutting and filling as I work my way up (or down..?) any tips? do's? dont's?

4. I assume It would be good practice to angle the track in to the hillside as I go, and make a drainage trench for rain run-off? Happy to be schooled on how this should be done as I go (Track will be covered with minimum size 30/40mm blue metal. Was thinking sandstone/bushrock for the drain trench..?)

5. I'm sure there are many factors I have not thought of yet - Hence this essay of questions... Please let me know!

Thanks to all in advance - Hope you're safe and having fun.

Ps: can post photos if need. Will wait for requests before doing so.

cheers!

 

[skyking1]

There is a ton to unpack there.
Firstly, welcome to the forum!
Climbing 30M in 150 is pretty steep, and a whole world different to climb 40M. If you have good GPS coverage you can pin that down to a more accurate number with a phone app.
Fills depend on the material. What do you have to work with?
Do you have some pipe handy? That much of a trail up a slope is going to wash out badly in a heavy rain, so managing that water is really what it is all about.
If the material is good enough to compact and stand up, you can do a cut and fill on your way up. Keep in mind the downhill slope has to be shallow enough to stay, unless you have some big rock to steepen up that slope.
If there is any question on the material, you may be doing a cut only. It is time consuming, but the native bench you expose will be tougher.
You can still waste the material down slope, then dress it up and leave it.
Find natural features that are taking the water now, and place your pipe there. If you have crappy stuff, add a down pipe to the end of the pipe to get the water away from your road and eliminate it washing you out.
A road that steep will take some building to be 2wd uphill.

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

There is a ton to unpack there.
Firstly, welcome to the forum!
Climbing 30M in 150 is pretty steep, and a whole world different to climb 40M. If you have good GPS coverage you can pin that down to a more accurate number with a phone app.
Fills depend on the material. What do you have to work with?
Do you have some pipe handy? That much of a trail up a slope is going to wash out badly in a heavy rain, so managing that water is really what it is all about.
If the material is good enough to compact and stand up, you can do a cut and fill on your way up. Keep in mind the downhill slope has to be shallow enough to stay, unless you have some big rock to steepen up that slope.
If there is any question on the material, you may be doing a cut only. It is time consuming, but the native bench you expose will be tougher.
You can still waste the material down slope, then dress it up and leave it.
Find natural features that are taking the water now, and place your pipe there. If you have crappy stuff, add a down pipe to the end of the pipe to get the water away from your road and eliminate it washing you out.
A road that steep will take some building to be 2wd uphill.

Thanks Skyking, appreciate your replies!

Which ph app would you recommend for getting accurate GPS data? I don't have any experience with using such..!

The hillside is south facing in a steep valley on Sydney's Central Coast. Topsoil is rich, dark and loamy on average for the first 300mm down, then tends to turn to light-orange clay predominantly under that. Not much rock, though the valley does have Sandstone cliffs and ridge-tops above. We easily get flooded in when large rain events pass over, so it's quite lush in here and we have quite a bit of sub-tropical rainforest in some areas also. Id say that this valley bottom would of been a riverbed in eons past. Whatever cut and fill we'd do, we'd want to be planting out the outside of the track asap as well. And any big bits of bush rock we'd find would definitely be used.. finding them in our valley is key!

When you say "native bench" that's just the track cut out of the hillside? Would that create more of a sheer dirt/clay wall on the uphill side of the track? and yes a LOT more spoil cut out i'm imagining?

We do have a bit of concrete pipe handy, but not much as landscaping overflows, road access, and a trench from our main dam down past the cottage and then main shed is also on the cards... That said, we might be able to utilise a pipe here and there on the access track up, if needed. Hoping to find more pipe cheaply in time too! Instead of pipe, would landscaping a water-course in/as the trench be appropriate you think..? Depends on a host of factors im sure.

Come across any Youtube vids that might be similar to our situation?

Regardless, Thanks again!

 

[skyking1]

I use Osmand for maps, but I would look up GPS apps for Australia. I see several possibilities there.

That dark soil does not belong in the road track, so you want to strip that and if it goes in the fill area, put it outside on the slope. Sounds like you have enough rain there to worry about.
You will want some pipe to get that water to the other side of the road, and probably in a couple of places.
Pioneer a trail through there and take some pics for us.

 

[Tones]

Welcome to HEF.
Mate you can read all you like, watch all the videos you can but there is no substitute for plonking your clacker on the seat and ave a go yer mug. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, many of us here had to exactly that. You are on your own property so no big harm can be done that can't be rectified which is all part of "the learning" and you'll be better for it IMHO

 

[Welder Dave]

Pics. of the property would help. I think on steep slopes you'd want to start at the top, especially if you don't have a large machine(s). Gravity would certainly help but need to make sure to stay straight on the slope so you don't roll the machine. I'd try to make a much less steep slope. The last thing you want is to spin driving up it when it's wet or covered in snow. Would be hard to maintain if it got washboarded.

 

[Delmer]

You have a couple of main choices to make. Cut deep enough to have the track on all virgin material, or strip the topsoil and compact the fill as you go so the track can be partly on the fill also. No problem with either, but don't dump the fill on top of topsoil and just compact the top, it will probably settle and wash out worse. Also depends if you want it luxuriously wide, or inconspicuous as possible.

If it's only 150m wide, then you might run the inner drain ditch to each end, instead of the usual way of having pipes at every natural water runoff point, or dips to drain the water every so often. If you'll always have the machines available, even the little tractor, you could put dips in for now and redo later if you come up with pipe. Double wall plastic works too.

Rock vs vegetation for the ditches? if you can grow vegetation quickly in that climate, a thick grass sod can work for the ditches if you can establish it before it washes. Fertilizer, seed, water as needed.

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

I use Osmand for maps, but I would look up GPS apps for Australia. I see several possibilities there.

That dark soil does not belong in the road track, so you want to strip that and if it goes in the fill area, put it outside on the slope. Sounds like you have enough rain there to worry about.
You will want some pipe to get that water to the other side of the road, and probably in a couple of places.
Pioneer a trail through there and take some pics for us.

as soon as I start slashing (Have to be after the shed goes up) Will definitely share some pics!

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

Welcome to HEF.
Mate you can read all you like, watch all the videos you can but there is no substitute for plonking your clacker on the seat and ave a go yer mug. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, many of us here had to exactly that. You are on your own property so no big harm can be done that can't be rectified which is all part of "the learning" and you'll be better for it IMHO

haha - couldn't agree more... cheers!

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

Pics. of the property would help. I think on steep slopes you'd want to start at the top, especially if you don't have a large machine(s). Gravity would certainly help but need to make sure to stay straight on the slope so you don't roll the machine. I'd try to make a much less steep slope. The last thing you want is to spin driving up it when it's wet or covered in snow. Would be hard to maintain if it got washboarded.

yea, the less steep would be the better... What's the pros/cons of starting at bottom Vs top..? I have more flexibility of where the track would level out at the top, whereas the bottom has to start at a specific point

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

You have a couple of main choices to make. Cut deep enough to have the track on all virgin material, or strip the topsoil and compact the fill as you go so the track can be partly on the fill also. No problem with either, but don't dump the fill on top of topsoil and just compact the top, it will probably settle and wash out worse. Also depends if you want it luxuriously wide, or inconspicuous as possible.

If it's only 150m wide, then you might run the inner drain ditch to each end, instead of the usual way of having pipes at every natural water runoff point, or dips to drain the water every so often. If you'll always have the machines available, even the little tractor, you could put dips in for now and redo later if you come up with pipe. Double wall plastic works too.

Rock vs vegetation for the ditches? if you can grow vegetation quickly in that climate, a thick grass sod can work for the ditches if you can establish it before it washes. Fertilizer, seed, water as needed.

thanks for these points!

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

I use Osmand for maps, but I would look up GPS apps for Australia. I see several possibilities there.

That dark soil does not belong in the road track, so you want to strip that and if it goes in the fill area, put it outside on the slope. Sounds like you have enough rain there to worry about.
You will want some pipe to get that water to the other side of the road, and probably in a couple of places.
Pioneer a trail through there and take some pics for us.

yea with the maps, it's hard to pinpoint an accurate height difference as the location is quite rural. 30m from where the track would start is the average height, and the average grade would be 20' with the crest getting to 30' (on average... I'd skip the steeper places and just make the track longer I reckon...)

 

[ianjoub]

My project today. I used a Vermeer 925



My hole I needed a road into is about 75' deep. I ended up with roughly a 30 degree slope.

 

[ianjoub]

You can see I started a cut at the top and just started pushing the sand down hill.



I didn't quite make the bottom yet, another 10' to go.

 

[saltcreek]

Welcome to HEF.
Mate you can read all you like, watch all the videos you can but there is no substitute for plonking your clacker on the seat and ave a go yer mug. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, many of us here had to exactly that. You are on your own property so no big harm can be done that can't be rectified which is all part of "the learning" and you'll be better for it IMHO

perfect advise!!

 

[Welder Dave]

Way easier pushing downhill than uphill. You can dig material, dump it on top and dig some more going downhill. Going uphill you pretty much have to completely remove the material to progress forward. Machine has to work a lot harder going uphill. You could do a little at the bottom just to establish where you need to end up.

 

[Tones]

With an excavator it doesn't really matter if you make a road going up or down. Start at the end with the easiest access so you can get to the machine with a Ute incase of breakdown or refuelling if you are going to leave it on site and if the weather turns to shyt you can get it off site .

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

You can see I started a cut at the top and just started pushing the sand down hill.

View attachment 275108

I didn't quite make the bottom yet, another 10' to go.

View attachment 275109

that's a lot of dirt! did you do it all with that small machine pictured...?

 

[Guy: CAT-308E2]

Way easier pushing downhill than uphill. You can dig material, dump it on top and dig some more going downhill. Going uphill you pretty much have to completely remove the material to progress forward. Machine has to work a lot harder going uphill. You could do a little at the bottom just to establish where you need to end up.

needed to hear this - thanks!

 

[ianjoub]

that's a lot of dirt! did you do it all with that small machine pictured...?

Yes, close to 10 hours.