What is the most dependable truck engine of all time?

[chidog]

Since fire season is upon us here, I keep thinking about all the new junk engines and the problems they can have.
Fire truck engines should be exempt from any and all emissions crap, and have no electronic fuel systems.

 

[92U 3406]

DDEC 3 & 4 Series 60

 

[Birken Vogt]

Most fire trucks don't need a full size truck engine.

Cummins 8.3 300-350 horsepower was the best choice 20 years ago and if they were not all clapped out still would be. Some did not like the CAPS pump and earlier ones came with a P-pump I think.

I actually liked the ones that had the HPCR system right before DPF took over.

ISL was also a good choice for larger fire trucks.

Water tenders, best choice was a good commercial chassis like KW with a Cat, Cummins or Detroit in it.

Anything non-electronic is far too old now, nobody to work on it/get parts.

 

[cfherrman]

N14 and l10

Two stroke Detroits can be if you dig up some guys in the graveyard

Nothing international past like 2000

 

[Coaldust]

I would like to mention some 3406E prefixes, but I agree with 92U. Hard to beat a series 60 3&4. The Cat 3306 truck engine is a close 2nd.

 

[chidog]

Yeah the two stroke detroits, some how seem to be pretty dependable. And probably the most simple of the fuel systems.
Nothing electronic is what I would call dependable, it takes very little to put one down.
Yeah when all is good they are okay, but a small bit of corrosion in a connector or loose connection, frayed wire, fried transistor, a bit of H2o where it shouldn't be etc. then your sitting.
Not cool for someones home to burn down because of a simple electrical problem with a fire truck.

 

[Birken Vogt]

When I was a firefighter/mechanic nobody's house burned down because of a fire truck failure.

When a house fire call gets dispatched, at least 5 fire engines are coming, most of them are taxis for manpower and will get parked down the road idling and never used. . If one breaks down on the road another one will be dispatched to replace it. If one breaks down at the fire then just grab the one sitting right behind it.

But that never happened that I know of. The same parts are used to drive the rear axle are also used to drive the fire pump, so if it made it to the fire, it will likely be able to pump for 10 minutes longer and knock down the fire.

Most of the problems are discovered back at the barn and they spend weeks in the shop waiting for parts/service like anything. The older they get, the longer that takes.

 

[92U 3406]

When I was a firefighter/mechanic nobody's house burned down because of a fire truck failure.

When a house fire call gets dispatched, at least 5 fire engines are coming, most of them are taxis for manpower and will get parked down the road idling and never used. . If one breaks down on the road another one will be dispatched to replace it. If one breaks down at the fire then just grab the one sitting right behind it.

But that never happened that I know of. The same parts are used to drive the rear axle are also used to drive the fire pump, so if it made it to the fire, it will likely be able to pump for 10 minutes longer and knock down the fire.

Most of the problems are discovered back at the barn and they spend weeks in the shop waiting for parts/service like anything. The older they get, the longer that takes.

That sounds pretty accurate. My town has less than 2000 people in it and I can see at least 4 firetrucks parked in the firehouse when I drive past.

 

[56wrench]

Any structure fire around here necessitates the response of at least 2 or 3 local fire departments- its policy. But, these are small rural departments with one pumper each and accompanying each is a tanker. Most times nowadays its more of a problem finding enough volunteers to show up rather than an equipment problem

 

[Birken Vogt]

We had a policy, no fire truck left the barn with less than 1 person operating it.

 

[digger doug]

Yup ^^^
I used to hang out at a local garage 35 years ago, and we did state inspections on vehicles.

For some reason, we did a small boro's VFD truck inspection. They were not very local to us, maybe 30 miles east. The garage owner was a long time veteran in the local VFD. So maybe he did these gratis for VFD's

This was a 1960's chevy, maybe 5 ton truck with a front pump.
Every local VFD had moved up to newer equipment.

I noticed a 10 lb CO2 fire extinguisher setting in a simple ring (bucket)
on the drivers side running board, just behind the door latch. No belt latch, simply sitting in a deep enough well, to stay there.

The garage owner explained it's function.
When a call goes out, the first person to reach the station grabs the truck and radios out so everyone else proceeds to the fire in their own vehicle.

The fire extinguisher on the running board ?

Many fires are kitchen fires, or other small fires (if you get there fast enough before they grow) so the driver jumps out, grabs the extinguisher on the way out of the truck, and this is the first response, and many times it's all that's needed.

 

[suladas]

When I was a firefighter/mechanic nobody's house burned down because of a fire truck failure.

When a house fire call gets dispatched, at least 5 fire engines are coming, most of them are taxis for manpower and will get parked down the road idling and never used. . If one breaks down on the road another one will be dispatched to replace it. If one breaks down at the fire then just grab the one sitting right behind it.

But that never happened that I know of. The same parts are used to drive the rear axle are also used to drive the fire pump, so if it made it to the fire, it will likely be able to pump for 10 minutes longer and knock down the fire.

Most of the problems are discovered back at the barn and they spend weeks in the shop waiting for parts/service like anything. The older they get, the longer that takes.

Also they have different programming to avoid the truck going down, no emissions, etc will derate or turn the truck off when it's at a fire, they will also bypass the governor and run the engine as fast as required to keep the flow rate up until the engine lets go.

 

[digger doug]

Also they have different programming to avoid the truck going down, no emissions, etc will derate or turn the truck off when it's at a fire, they will also bypass the governor and run the engine as fast as required to keep the flow rate up until the engine lets go.

Anything in the programming to allow the truck to start, run, drive, and work without the computer ?

 

[Birken Vogt]

Also they have different programming to avoid the truck going down, no emissions, etc will derate or turn the truck off when it's at a fire, they will also bypass the governor and run the engine as fast as required to keep the flow rate up until the engine lets go.

I have heard complaining about emissions systems and talk of that but never seen it actually allowed or implemented anywhere. Never heard of one bypassing the governor, that sounds like a recipe for disaster when the water pressure transducer fails, send the engine to the moon for no reason.

When I was in the hand throttle was more like a cruise control, just set the engine at a certain RPM and use your eyes to watch the discharge pressure gauge. They have electronic governors now but I am not sure how much they have caught on.

 

[cfherrman]

My brother designs fire trucks, every component has a failsafe so it can be used manually. I can't remember exactly what he said about the engines but irc they do have the shutdown override handy.

 

[Truck Shop]

Best on/off road, most reliable, easiest to acquire parts for, easiest computerized engine to work on,
well designed cooling system, excellent fuel mileage, all with manual shutdown over ride, light not
heavy, very good engine retardation, Many, many have run over 1.2 million miles and have never
had the cylinder head removed.
*
Series 60 12.7 DDEC 3,4, rated up to 500 hp and 1700 torque.

 

[excavator]

When I was a firefighter/mechanic nobody's house burned down because of a fire truck failure.

When a house fire call gets dispatched, at least 5 fire engines are coming, most of them are taxis for manpower and will get parked down the road idling and never used. . If one breaks down on the road another one will be dispatched to replace it. If one breaks down at the fire then just grab the one sitting right behind it.

But that never happened that I know of. The same parts are used to drive the rear axle are also used to drive the fire pump, so if it made it to the fire, it will likely be able to pump for 10 minutes longer and knock down the fire.

Most of the problems are discovered back at the barn and they spend weeks in the shop waiting for parts/service like anything. The older they get, the longer that takes.

I had a customer who bought a mid 70s GMC firetruck, the local district finally decided to sell it after it caught fire for the third time while fighting a house fire. Only slightly embarrassing.

 

[renovator]

When I was a firefighter/mechanic nobody's house burned down because of a fire truck failure.

When a house fire call gets dispatched, at least 5 fire engines are coming, most of them are taxis for manpower and will get parked down the road idling and never used. . If one breaks down on the road another one will be dispatched to replace it. If one breaks down at the fire then just grab the one sitting right behind it.

But that never happened that I know of. The same parts are used to drive the rear axle are also used to drive the fire pump, so if it made it to the fire, it will likely be able to pump for 10 minutes longer and knock down the fire.

Most of the problems are discovered back at the barn and they spend weeks in the shop waiting for parts/service like anything. The older they get, the longer that takes.

That makes sense. I hear on the news where the Albuquerque Fire Department will send 15 unit sto a house fire. I don't know where they would park 15 units, down the block for several blocks?

 

[chidog]

All that is fine and good, until there is a huge wild fire, and all the assets are on the job, and nothing available when its someones home going up. You can't gamble on 4 fire trucks showing up when 10 homes are cooking. So having one truck go down at any point in time can be catastrophic.

 

[chidog]

Anything in the programming to allow the truck to start, run, drive, and work without the computer ?

And should be a top priority system, "run with zero electrics". Like the good old cat dozers, they could be started and run with out a battery in sight.
There are spring starters for diesel engines.