BAD miss, may have major trouble! 1967 580ck. Roughest backhoe in captivity.

[willie59]

When you're doing compression test, if you have manual engine shut down, have it in engine stop position. If key switch shuts engine off, disconnect wire from fuel solenoid. This will prevent injection pump from squirting fuel all over the engine while you're cranking during compression test.

 

[packratc]

Thank you Willie59 of neighboring Knoxville. That's some handy advise that will prevent an obvious mess. I would've done it for sure. Packratc

 

[willie59]

Thank you Willie59 of neighboring Knoxville. That's some handy advise that will prevent an obvious mess. I would've done it for sure. Packratc

You're welcome bro.

 

[FRISKY]

Please be careful if you do a leakdown test or put air pressure to any of the cylinders. If the piston in the cylinder you are working on isn't on TDC...the air pressure will cause the engine (and anything attached to it) to rotate.

 

[packratc]

Thanks for both safety tips, always a help. BUT, no one warned dummy me that if you loosen an injector while testing the other, that loose injector becomes a bullet. That baby landed about 15 feet away.Fortunatly we were both out of said projectiles path and it fell harmlessly to earth. No need to alert NASA or call 911, so all is well in Middle Tennessee. This post will be too long, so on to the next.

 

[dwloop]

:shf

I have had those moments before... Never with an injector though... Hell, I can't even get mine to budge!! :Banghead

My brother had an old 56' Ford F100 with a flathead V8 in high school. It was pretty tired as I remember and I was always working on it (He is four years my younger). We were under the hood one day doing something, I was in front, he on the side over the fender watching, is was running and it spit a spark plug hitting him right in the chest. He only had TShirt on and it made quite the bruise. He was mad at me 'cause I said it should had hit him in the head!! An injector is quite a bit heavier and if the diesel is correct it has a lot more compression, that would definately leave a mark!!

Dave

 

[packratc]

Good news is that compression kit worked great. Bad news is that 275 lbs on #4, 300 lbs on #3, 0 lbs on 2 & 1. As the rocker arms came off, it proved to have two bent pushrods. At least one of these was one that I found that was so far out of adjustment. Struggled with the head intil I took out water pump and took hollow bolt out that is behind the water pump. It goes through the front housing and into the head. (You all know these things and I'm just scratching my head with dirty, greasy fingers.) I'm out side in the gravel so moving the engine lift is fun also. But, it lifts that little head right off there. Cylinder walls are nice and smooth. Ridge ring is mostly carbon, won't hang your finger nail much at all. Piston appearance looks good on all except #2 which match the head in that it's pretty "carboned up". What bothers me most is that there are TWO HEAD GASKETS. Somebody has snuck in there before I got there. Now I have to wonder why the two. Will take head to machine shop in the morning. Hope the block does not need surfacing. Can I, should I, pull the pan and ring the pistons in place. Remember, engine still in the hoe. Gotta' go somewhere, more later and maybe some pics. Advise taken with appreciation. Did I mention that the two head gaskets were blown all to h... between 1 & 2 ? Packratc, greasy in Tennessee!

 

[alrman]

Liner protrusion packratc, 2 gaskets seems like someones poor idea of trying to fix an ongoing problem there......
Replacing the piston rings on their own is not a great idea on a diesel, even with honing, they will never really do their job as the liners go hard & the rings will never really bed in - if you want to go that way, new sleeves should be fitted.

The bent pushrods are a worry, have valves touched the pistons?
I hope you noticed that one of the rocker shaft bolts is drilled for oil gallery & where it came from?

 

[packratc]

Thanks for the reply, Alrman, from down under. Yes I noted the drilled bolt in the middle rocker stand. It was oiling good but it looked like the front was oiling a lot better than the back. A good cleaning will probably cure that. No valve kissing pistons. I wonder if I didn't do in the pushrods with the ether. Should I take a depth mike and check the protrusion of the liners? Is it a big hassle buiding the engine in the hoe? Anyone have a suggestion where I should buy a rebuild kit, or is it a no-no to make such suggestions on the board? I guess I could bring in my secret weapon and lift the loader off of the hoe. Was not planning on doing all that right now, but I guess I can. It's only money and time! Thanks for the interest and the helpful comments. This site is a life saver. Packratc

 

[dwloop]

Packratc,

I just went through the same decision... My head gasket was leaking combustion into the cooling system. After it warmed it ran 'OK'... I pulled the head and found my liners were worse than yours evidently based on your prior post. Numbers one and four had rusted at some time due to sitting outside with the exhaust not covered and it has run this way for some time, but all had very little wear. The head had been off before and the head was not even stuck, meaning it never sealed. The oil bolt in mine was in the wrong spot causing the rockers to gall the shafts, a real mess. I won't tell what I did, but I was thinking of an in frame rebuild, then later decided not to due to expenses at the moment.

The best place I found the whole kit aftermarket was www.agkits.com at about $540. I bought my gaskets there and was impressed with them. Be aware that there are two different types of the liners for the Case 188D, the early which you should have and the later. The difference is the liner flange diameter, early was 4.445" and the later is 4.537". The head gasket and work I did made a world of difference in mine, it runs so much better! I will know later in the spring if it holds up.

BTW, you should have a one piece front cover unless someone has changed it out. How did you get the head off without pulling the front cover??

HTH,
Dave

 

[packratc]

Thanks for the advise, Dave. As mine is believed to be a 1967 Hoe, I probably have the early type. The price you quoted is quite a bit cheaper than the $675 on Ebay. I tried to look up Coleman Equipments but couldn't fiqure out a firm price from their website. I need to take down the moto serial number and maybe pull the pan and make sure the rods are standard size before ordering one. I think you would call my front cover a sinle piece. It's a large hunka cast metal. Looked like there was a small cover you could take off right in front of the injection pump. I've not investigated but I would guess that it's to facilitate timing the injection pump. To get the head off I removed the two manifolds, rocker arms & stands, all head bolts and then the tricky part. I removed the fan, pulley and then the water pump itself. Behind the water pump is a hollow bolt that goes through the cast front housing and then screws into the head. Looks like water comes out of one of the head's water passages and returns to the water pump that way. Maybe someone else can explain it better. Incidently. I'm not so sure I can put the head with front housing gasket (which is directly behind the water pump) back together again as it's a tight fit for the gasket. We'll just have to see. Radiator and lower hose is still in place.Thanks, Packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc : In case you missed it, this information is on the webpage that Dave has posted a link to.

Case 188 (G188D) 3.1L Diesel L4 Engine Rebuild Kit (Clevite)
Engine Kit Technical Information:
Early Model - Before Serial No. 2656843 uses a 4.458" Sleeve Flange Diameter (Small Flange)
Late Model - After Ser No. 2656844 uses a 4.537" Sleeve Flange Diameter (Large Flange)

 

[alrman]

Should I take a depth mike and check the protrusion of the liners? Is it a big hassle buiding the engine in the hoe?

To start with packratc, just be sure there is a little protusion of the flange above the block. You are looking for a few thou, which you will feel with your fingernail. Look especially at the area between 1 & 2 where the gasket was blown.
An in chassis rebuild is a good way to freshen up an engine. It is a little more physical as you have to lie under & lean over the top. But you don't get to check things like timing gears; micing a camshaft is a challenge; rear engine oil seal is not changed.

 

[Mikefromcny]

packratc, Your hoe doesnt look too bad, I've seen much worse. Thanks for posting the pics, us guys love em.

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc : In case you missed it, this information is on the webpage that Dave has posted a link to.

Case 188 (G188D) 3.1L Diesel L4 Engine Rebuild Kit (Clevite)
Engine Kit Technical Information:
Early Model - Before Serial No. 2656843 uses a 4.458" Sleeve Flange Diameter (Small Flange)
Late Model - After Serial No. 2656844 uses a 4.537" Sleeve Flange Diameter (Large Flange)

Packratc ; I did a little head scratching after I made that post. Somebody may correct me - but I think a 580C has a 207D engine in it. The 188s were in the 580B's.
Here is a cut and paste from one of the many overhaul kit supplier's website. If you PM or email me the serial number of the tractor I can tell you the year it was made. I have the complete list for all the 580's.

Case 207 (G207D) 3.4L Diesel L4 Engine Rebuild Kit (FP Diesel)

Engine Kit Technical Information:
*Early Engines use a 2 1/4" combustion bowl piston. Later Engines use a 2 1/2" combustion bowl piston.

Please Note: The oil pan gasket that comes with this kit is for Standard Clutch Transmissions. If you have a Shuttle Transmission, you may need to purchase a separate oil pan gasket from your local Case dealer.

Engine Kit Fits:
Case Forklift w/ G207D Engine. Models 584C, 585C, 586C.
Case Wheel Tractor w/ 207D G207D Engines. Models 580C, 580D, 580D-CK.
Case Crawler Tractor w/ G207D Engine. Models 350, 450.

Parts Included in Overhaul Engine Kit:
(4) Sleeve Assembly (Sleeve, Piston, Wrist Pin, Piston Rings)
(4) Connecting Rod Bearing Pair
(1) Main Bearing Set
(1) Full Gasket Set with Crank Seals

 

[alrman]

Tinkerer, good info there, but it would be a 188 as Packratc has a 580CK (580 Construction King) - model before the B.

edit - You were right the first time!

 

[Tinkerer]

Alrman; I finally can quit scratching my head about the Packratc's 580. It seems all the tractors in the 580 family were referred to as Construction King's by Case. But when I searched for parts I looked for a 580CK. That is what I saw in Packratc's thread title. There is no such model tractor in the Case parts index. Neither is there one in the serial number list I have. I made my mistake when I shortened 580CK to 580C in my parts search ! Packratc has a 580 / Construction King just like you said. The 580B followed it in the age lineage and then the 580C. Hopefully this will help someone else when they are looking for parts.

 

[packratc]

Thank you both for your efforts to be correct. Mine is a 580ck. I'll post the serial # tomorrow. Alrman says that I should just have a few thousands of deck height with the sleeves. Mine look to protrude about 1/8th of an inch above the deck, maybe more. That may be my problem, or one of them. Maybe pics & measurements tomorrow. I won't promise cause it's 18 degrees out there right now. Thanks for your help, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Mine look to protrude about 1/8th of an inch above the deck, maybe more.

There's no way it can have 1/8" protusion ......... 2 x head gaskets? ......... Now you really have my attention packratc.
It's possible the cylinders have moved up by turning the engine over with the head off- if this is the case you will now HAVE TO pull the sleeves as the orings will be shot & guaranteed to leak coolant into sump ...... doh!

 

[packratc]

Thanks, Alrman! I fianlly got your attention! Your comments and advise have been very exact, thoughtful, & helpful, and they were just passing whims. NOW I've got your attention. I've already decided to get the serial numbers and order a complete rebuild. It's still under 20 degrees out & I don't really relish crawling under it to drain the oil and check a rod bearing. By-the-way, no sign of water in the oil. Thanks, Packratc