BAD miss, may have major trouble! 1967 580ck. Roughest backhoe in captivity.

[chroniekon]

Hey packratc, you had me goin all right. I bit hook,line, and sinker. It's amazing how many ways something can be interpreted isn't it?. Of course you can't ride me too hard after saying you were going to hold push rods in place with bread twist wires a few posts back!

 

[packratc]

Yeh! I thought it was pretty obvioius. Everybody knows that bread twists are too short. When I was a kid we used to say that you could fix anything with Elmers GlueAll and milk bottle wire. Packratc

 

[packratc]

Good news! Just talked to the machine shop that has my head (that would be the one off do the hoe) and it's done. I'll get it later today or tomorrow. I haven't met him but he knew it had a blown gasket. He said it took quite a bit to get the head flat. It looked like to him that the gasket had been blown for quite some time. I hope I can take that as saying that someone blew a head gasket and put two on it to keep from milling the head. Since I've had it it has run solid but I've never used another so I didn't have a feel for how much power it should have. The next thing to do is to slide a feeler under a hunka' steel to see if the top of the block is flat. If it's not I've got another decision to make. My rebuild kit should be here today. I've got some parts to clean up and the crank to polish with emory cloth. Gotta' study up on how to install sleeves. Will I need to end gap the rings? Should I start another thread as it goes back together? Thanks, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Re: end gap of rings - with new parts its not really neccesary to do all of them, but I would do one to check, in case of any packaging mistakes.
Re: new thread - 'War & Peace' is one book isn't it? -

 

[packratc]

Alrman. I'm afraid that War & Peace is written in 4 volumes and a 2 part epilogue. I think it's the 16th or 17th longest book ever published. In the beginning it's partly in French, but mostly Russian. Although written in the 1860's, it begins narration in 1805. It's difficult for me to imagine a thread that would compare. I'm not really tempted to compete, only because never, not even once, did Mr Tolstoy ever mention a Case 580CK. If he had, I'd feel obligated to take up the challenge to write about the in-frame rebuild of the 188 diesel as installed in the 1967, Case 580CK backhoe. If you will, as you've been sooo-- helpful in my plight with this ole hoe, spend a few moments and look over the 3rd & 4th volumes and see of he did sneak in a refrence to the machine that I'm working on. Get back to me on this and we can discuss the possibility of the rebuild being on this same thread. Of course, I only want to help the future frustrated mechanics that are/will attempt this same repair on similar machines. Thanks again, Packratc

 

[willie59]

IMHO, I'd keep the info on one thread. It's a start to finish project anyway, and it's easier to find a single thread in the future as opposed to finding two different threads.

 

[packratc]

Good point, willie59! I guess that lets alrman off the hook on my request to research the mention of the 580ck in volumes 3 & 4 of War & Peace. No matter the length we'll stick to the one thread.Thanks, Packratc

 

[packratc]

OK! The day has come to start making mistakes again while putting this rag back together. I'm hoping alrman will help me so we can compete with the 4 volume longest post ever. The head took 3 passes to clean up & make flat. He cleaned it, did a valve job, machined it flat, & 8 new valve seals for $133. Thought it was a good deal. Blew the rain water off the tarp & blew water,oil, old bugs, etc., off of the victim. Decided to bring the winch truck around & pickup the loader.Think I cut 2 pieces of 3" angle 32.5" long to hold up the loader. It had been a pain as you all can imagine. Chico, got underneath & started loosing main caps. The looked pretty good. Couldn't get the bearing upper shell to cooperate. Ended up grinding the teeth off of a hacksaw blade and making the ends flat. Tapped on it & it followed the bearing around the crank until he could get ahold of it. BETTER YET! I learned later from & old friend. He cuts the head off of a 20 penny nail and puts it in the crank oil hole. Turns the crank and the nail pushes the bearing out. Puts them back in the same way. Just got to be careful to not leave the nail too long nor turn it the wrong way. He nailed it! I noted the oil hole in the rear main. One could over look it. Looks like bad weather coming in. Next step is to torque the crank and then put in the sleeves. Do folks still put the sleeves in the freezer overnight? Directions with the rebuild kit said nothing about it. They did say to use vegatable oil on the sleeve o-rings. Remember: notches toward the front & numbers toward the cam. Listening for suggestions. Thanks, Packratc

 

[alrman]

Might be a good idea to check bearing clearance with plastigauge.
Use plenty of oil during bearing assy, better still some engine assembly grease - often it is supplied with rebuild kits.
You have not yet mentioned the condition of the cyl block - where the orings on the liners seal. Often these get eaten out with rust / electrolosis - these must be in good shape for the orings to do their job.......

I'll say it again now - I use "rubber grease" to lube the liner orings during install.

** Fit all the liners without the seals & clamp them down to check protusion.**

Re: putting them in the freezer ....... waste of time as you seem to live in one! - No, they don't need any special treatment, if they are tight to go in - the block is not clean enough, with the orings fitted & lubed they should go in by hand, with a slight twist

 

[willie59]

I haven't built one of those engines alrman, but it sounds much like the old 239 Deere, no need to shrink liners, just make sure the block is clean and lube o-rings with rubber grease, then gently push them in.

 

[shopguy]

the head may have been shaved before so make sure your pushrods dont hit the rocker levers when valves open form adjustment screws backed out too far.If so you can get shims to go under rocker stands .The bolt in the water pump may not line up now ,throw it away. Good Luck

 

[packratc]

Thanks for all the good advise. Have been reading my work manual which is a CD. Not too handy. When I took said victim apart I noted that the hollow oil bolt to the rockers was in the middle stand. Also thought that only one end of the rockers were getting oil. Read the manual and it says it ought to oil from the rear-most rocker stand. Then found that the rocker shafts are equal length & manual calls for a long & short. Manual shows oil holes in rocker shaft all the way through. Mine are only on one side. Maybe I'm reading crazy but it almost looks like someone replaced some of said parts from a gas burner. Of course I've gotten the rocker arms all mixed up. I've thrown them back together. I'll get it started and observe what's oiling what where. Not too worried about the rockers being switched around. They can't tighten up as they wear. I'll just run the valves every 6 months or a year and let her ride. You all let me know your opinion on all that & I'll think of some more screw-ups. But, it's all in fun! Packratc

 

[packratc]

Shopguy, You know we left the front housing in place and just loosened up the bolts a little bit. Glued the gasket onto the housing & kinda slid the head from the rear so the gasket would stay in place. I had taken all the studs out to have room for the sleeve puller. Took a little coaxing but finally got the three housing bolts started. Didn't think the hollow water return bolt would go in but it finally did. Had to snug the head down a little bit to get that done. Wouldn't it be interesting if those kept the head from torquing down all the way. How's a guy gonna' know? I got an idea? I'll use two head gaskets. If it ever blowns it'll probably blow between the 1st & 2nd cylinders. OH! This is starting to feel too familiar. Packratc

 

[shopguy]

Yea and lets use wrong rockers and see how good pushrods are.

 

[packratc]

I plan on backing off the rocker arm adjustments all the way and turning over the engine by hand. Am I correct in assuming that every time a piston comes to the top both valves are entirely closed? The manual says to find top dead center via the flywheel. Where's that marking to be seen?
Thanks for your continuing patience and assistance. Packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc; Your shop manual should have instructions and a diagram explaining how to set the valves. leave the rocker arm adjustments within at least .040 thouandths or so. Be sure #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke.You will be able to wiggle both rocker arms when it is. If one of them is tight it is likely on the exhaust stroke. I am not familiar with the 188, but the timing marks should be on the crankshaft damper (pulley) with a pointer on the front cover. Just like a car or truck engine. If it is on the flywheel maybe Alrman or Melben can step in with more accurate info.

 

[shopguy]

Leave all injectors out turn engine by hand (same rotation as it runs) until you see intake valve close then stick a stiff wire in injector hole and turn until you feel TDC ,set both valves on that cyl.then go to the next one in firing order there are other ways but this works best for me.Keeping one eye on pushrods on other cyl. making sure they are loose until there turn comes up.

 

[packratc]

Shopguy, It's funny but I had typed in this very method a little while ago. I had used a welding rod in the injector hole. If I watch what intake opens ofter #1 exhaust has opened & closed, I should be able to tell if I'm on the power stroke or 180 off. It's been a while but it used to work on gas burners. But I guess I need to find the timing hole in the bell housing. I should know all this stuff. Anyway, I typed it in and deleted it as folks best advise is to go by the manual. It probably is but I like to think the whole thing through in my own weird way. I'll get it done, some way, and I'll be cautious not to bend the pushrods. I may very well set them loose to start just to be safe. On the other hand, I need to rotate it by hand with the valves set close to insure that I don't have valve interference with the top of them there pistons. I'm more worried about the sleeves possibly leaking and/or another head gasket blowing. All in good time. It's only money and time. Thanks, Packratc

 

[shopguy]

Make sure you are on compression stroke to set valves even thoe the valves seem to be closed on the other tdc .dont worry about the timing mark unless you have the pump off.I said follow firing order but that dosent matter this way it just saves som turning but after all that is wife's work anyway

 

[alrman]

On a 4 cyl engine - 99% of them, petrol or diesel, the valve adjustment is the same procedure.
To adjust #1 on compession look for #4 to be rocking;
adjust #3 with #2 rocking;
adjust #4 with #1 rocking;
adjust #2 with #3 rocking;
No need to check piston height - but do whatever tickles your fancy. :tong



There are other methods to adjust - Case service manual tells how.