Best bang for buck scraper ?

[Construct'O]

You bring back old thoughts, on running scrapers,
I do not think there is a scraper I have not tried out. The worst one was that electric, I forgot the name ( OLD AGE I AM 70 ) everything was electric steering, sometimes the steering would lock up, so I would throw in the clutch and step on the throttle and hope the steering would kick in. I run the s 7 s12 s18 s24 they were a back breaker as they had like a little spring for a shock absorber. I remember the 619 cat scrapers and when I wanted to shift fast, you woul grab the hoist leaver when you were shifting and when you hit nutral hit the hoist lever and it would go right into gear, it was like speed shifting. The TS 24 and TS 14 to many electic problems, to much down time.
What I liked about scrapers was how fast you could move dirt and build road.When you run scraper always travel with a low bowl for SAFTY because if something happens with the scraper, you can drop it for a brake or if you go of the road your bowl will dig in. I remember many years ago on a dam job and it was very Hi ball, a guy pulled over to have a crap and did not drop his bowl to the ground, and climbed back on to his load in the dirt to have a dump, well you know what happened, he just stated to get relaxed and have his crap and the scraper took off, with him trying to get his pants up. The scraper got wrote off and he jumped off or got thrown off. So always get your bowl on to the ground before you get off. Have a great day you guys, I love this form.

On the 619 when you grabbed the hoist lever to shift,did you ever break a cable by high boom it doing that????? I also run one of those electric Wabcos,until i burnt out the stator from trying to get out of a mud hole:beatsme.

I was also the only person to get the electric over cable lip to get wound up backward trying to get the dirt to fall out.I was sure glad when the stator burnt up that was the end of that old girl.Thank God!:usa

 

[Texasgary]

Gary was that electric scraper a Wabco?

No most of the scraper was built by GE and it had 671 gm motor. I run the old Wabcos a 260 and 360 I think. When I started in Construction I was 16 years old, just got out of reform school. My brother inlaw was crazy enough to get me a job oiling on a 22 b backhoe and I loved it, it was like I was in the reform school but this place paid me to do nothing except a little greasing and oiling. I loved construction so much, it gets in your blood. Thanks for listening Buckethead.

 

[alan627b]

It took me a while to get back to this post.
As far as hoses, wires and hard lines over the hitch, how long they last depends on how well they are maintained. Cat took he trouble to put guards on the most easily damaged parts, but they often get removed over the years by lazy mechanics. The hard lines and hoses are held in place by rubber isolation blocks, if these rot out and aren't maintained, they rub holes in the hard lines. Then you have to take them off and braze them.
Keep wires taped up and zip tied so they don't hang loose, they last a good long time. If you have operators that insist on trying to get 23 yards in a 20 yard bowl, you could do a lot of damage in a very short time. Falling clods do a great job of removing wiring and hoses.
Cushion hitch maintenance means frequent lubrication, keeping the nitrogen accumulator charged, or it will beat the machine up as bad as a stiff neck.
When they get worn, you will get fore and aft movement as well as side to side. If you want to tell how worn a hitch is, put the cutting edge in the ground, with the hitch locked down. Put it in 2nd gear, and give it some front throttle, and see how far the nose rises. Twist the steering side to side and see how much movement there is in the steering linkage, and observe how much movement there is in the steering cylinders.
New pins and bushings are a lot less expensive than welding hitch castings, but some owners are cheap, and wait until the casting wears through before fixing.
False economy.
I can't say what a Euclid/Terex TS14 is like, as I've never run one. A guy owned some twin bowl
TTS-14's when I lived in Missouri, they moved a lot of dirt for him.
As far as 627's go, I've run the A,B, and E models.and the 621 E, F, G.
627B has 225 HP in each end, and can be turned up. E's started out the same, and got a power upgrade in the later years. I think F's were still at
450, the G now has 550. And is now rated at 23 yards heaped opposed to 21 for the older models.
The newer ones are nicer for the operator, but much more complex electronically.
Bang for buck, a good used 627B is the best choice for a small contractor in the 14-20 yard class. Speaking Cat only, of course.
As far as green lizards go, check to see what parts availablility is like in your area. Cat has a hell of a dealer network, but, they are proud of their parts.
I got parts for my 1954 Cat D2, and only had to wait overnight...not bad for a 54 year old machine.
I doubt you'd have that availability with the green stuff. Just my opinion, though.
Still, the 71 series GM engine is as common as dirt, and Allison automatics are common too. And the TS14 does seem to be a simply constructed machine, from the ones I've looked at.
I hope this helps,
alan627b

 

[qball]

i hate scrapers but i have run a bunch. if i had to RUN one, it would be a cat. if i had to own one, it would be a terex. a 14 is way better in marginal ground and a blind monkey could wrench on it.

 

[Neil D]

627 v TS14

Alan 627B has given some good and frank answers.
I have 2 627A's and 3 627B's which I have bought to put to work, TS14,s were investigated but the need for a full time fitter to remove and overhaul engines and transmissions finished that idea! Remember if you are a small contractor like myself you will not flog your machines the same as a big outfit and you will not want to spend your time fixing them. I admit I have never run Terex but I do know from listening to the old hands that you need the proper operators on Terex. Somebody earlier mentioned TS14's being reset to run at 2450 revs-it was explained to me that the two stroke diesel needs to be kept spinning flat out to protect the transmission from damage. One contractor I know used to run 24's but now runs 631's and 637's-he told me you could replace leaking seals on a Terex ram and you would hardly have your back turned before the same ram was leaking again.

As regards buying secondhand look at Machinery Trader-I wish I lived in the USA-there are some good machines out there for humble money,last year I saw a 627A with Cat fitted safety cab and cushion hitch in real good shape for $30000. Bring a good mechanic with you and be prepared to pay a little more for the machine that has been well looked after!
Cheers
Neil

 

[JASON M]

Very interesting observations from seasoned veterans. Our company is almost a hundred years old..... and I've had the opportunities to run our two old S-7's, affectionately called "The Billy Goats" the ones that nobody of age would run; and for good reason. You had to graduate and earn your salt before the older operators would allow you to run the two old TS-14's (TS-14A and TS-14B) We had an old Cat 613 elevator scraper, which we still have, but just for picking up windrows behind a patrol.
Then, we got the first set of Reynolds pull pans; our old Dirt Sup't deemed them "Bicycles"...... unfit for the industry.
Then we bought (4) very used Terex TS-18's from an Oklahoma coal mining outfit, put 'em on freight train, and had 'em delivered to La. Bought 'em for $25,000/each. Sank another $25,000 into each of them. This was back in 1994. Still have the same (4) Terex TS-18's today, and they are in the same shape as when we bought 'em; still running strong.
The operators thought that they died and went to heaven. Mucho more power, mucho more speed, larger diameter tires for a better ride, air throttles for the rear engine, beefier gooseneck hitch w/ no cracks, more ground clearance ....... just way more scraper! There is no comparison between a TS-14 and a TS-18 from a production standpoint.
Now, a TS-14 does have its place...... mostly in very soft ground conditions.... where if your operator musters the courage to try to traverse an area, then it is a TS-14 that should be "the Guinea Pig"..... because if it sinks, then it's a whole lot easier to recover.... but other than that, I challenge anybody to claim that a TS-14 can deliver a better cost/ cy. A TS-14 is also better at not destroying pavements, if the job you are building requires highway crossing; the TS-18 will mangle a standard highway, rutting it to oblivion.

 

[kansas cat]

Interesting

Just found and read this thread and wanted to say thanks to the old hands that have shared their input here. I just recently joined the ranks of scraper ownership. bought a 613C cat to use in my small family owned excavating business. I wanted it for doing terrace and waterway work primariliy with a occasional building pad or farm access road job. While i would have liked a bit bigger machine i went with the 613 as it is easy to transport either by roading it or by hauling on my lowboy, i also needed it to be sized to match up with my D5 cat for push loading and ole #12 cat grader. I just finished replacing the defective engine..3208 turbo..and hope to put it in the dirt for the first time next week as the weather is forecast to warm up nicely then for a while. Got 3 acres of nrcs waterway to finish building with it...and 1/2 mile of ditch to dig and build up a field access road with the material. It will be scraper school 101 for me next week.

 

[Greg]

Good luck with it. Unless you are a lot dryer and warmer than we are here good luck.

My machine of choice for NRCS waterways here is my D7 pulling A Cat No. 70 scraper. Works terriffic along with a D3 for cleanup and finish. I can see where the paddle wheel scraper would be great for this.

 

[grandpa]

TS14B. End of conversation.

 

[Rod Michaelson]

615C does well

For the work that comes our way, the 615C is a very good sized machine and the cost per hour is much less than a 623.

Cat chose not to continue making the model since emissions would require a redesign and not enough units were being sold to justify this.

I believe the number and type of scrapers will be very limited for the next 5 to 7 years as we wrestle with emissions and the economy.

 

[637slayer]

if its not a cat its a dog, the reason they paint terexs green is so they can hide in the weeds when the cats come by.

 

[hiballer627]

if its not a cat its a dog,
Awesome. I love it!
Cat is definitely king in Northern Alberta. I've only seen the green iron in action once,and they don't look fun. If you see Terex around here they're usually sitting in some yard rusting away.

 

[Panhandler Bob]

TS14B. End of conversation.

Agreed:drinkup Bob aka ZZ

 

[bigtex]

Photo Quilts, Memory Quilts, Picture Quilts
the best product
Ballet Music

 

[Phil]

No mention of the 621B scraper. At one time it was the most desirable machine out there. The most efficient scraper ever made was the Cat DW21, although direct drive and a cable machine, nothing could move dirt cheaper. Phil

 

[Panhandler Bob]

Photo Quilts, Memory Quilts, Picture Quilts
the best product
Ballet Music

:beatsme Just wonderin whats this gotta do with pans/scrapers??:drinkup Bob aka ZZ

 

[637slayer]

i was wondering that too

 

[hiballer627]

Pretty sure there are no scraperhands that listen to ballet music @ work! Or at home for that matter.

 

[Panhandler Bob]

Did work with a panhandler/scraperhand one time who listened to classical (betovehen/motzart etc.) with a big ole stogie hangin out his mouth. Never saw him with one outta the cab. One of the best I ever ran with. Alot of stories from that job. Just can't remember em all(1994) lotta bumps since then(an a few brown bottles):drinkup Bob aka ZZ

 

[green lizzard]

TS14Bs

Greetings ,I owned an interesting TS14b here in Australia as it was one of the Brazillian models fitted with twin v653 GMs.The 53s could handle 2800 rpms all day and to keep the speed down they were fitted with 456 ratio diffs.My rear diff failed and there was none to be had in OZ so we reratioed them to the more common 411 ratio that was matched to the 471GMs.Didn,t make much difference down low but made it very fast in top gear.Terex scoop being lighter than the 627 would move more dirt for less fuel burned.The 14s are so tough and easily repaired but not as nice to drive as the Cats.I know of a Contractor out west who had some Cat scrapers and one old ts14 and when his operators asked him why he didn,t get rid of the aged Terex said"son that machine made me my first million dollars and I wouldn,t be where i was today without it"