CAT 963 - Right Machine?

[BackertheBiker]

I posted this first in the Dozer forum, because I hadn't looked around enough to realize there was a track loader section! Clearly this is where I belong - my apologies for a double post..

I've started the process of building a pond on my property, knocking down and selling trees this fall and winter, and plan to build the Dam next spring / summer. It's about a 2 acre lake, and will be a 22' tall at center x 350' long dam. Somewhere between 3:1 and 4:1 slope on the dam, so I've mathed out around 9k yards of dirt in the dam, plus getting a good layer of clay spread on the 2 acre lake, and then spreading topsoil back out. The dirt is mostly clay out here, shouldn't be any surprises or anything to make the job difficult. I have a Ford 655C backhoe I can put someone in occasionally too, to help dig / prep dirt, do the core trench with, etc.

I have access to a late 80's / early 90's CAT 963 track loader. Trying to figure out what I'm getting myself into here. Is this a suitable machine to tackle this job with? How many hours of dirt pushing do we think I'm in for - 300 hours in the cab? Also what kind of fuel consumption am I looking at? Just trying to figure out some of the details before I dive into this, and trying to weigh out if I just need to take a loan out and have someone come in and do it for me. I'm not worried about my knowledge or capabilities in building a lake - I've read enough to be confident I'll be successful. My concern is how much time this will cost me, if this track loader is the right machine, and what the fuel and maintenance cost will end up being. Anything to look out for on this machine, to make sure I don't completely tear up my buddy's dozer? All input welcome!




- Backer

 

[skyking1]

Since you did not mention it, I would figure out the cut to the bottom of the pond elevation. Then I'd take that backhoe and do some extensive test pits to that depth.
The reason being, if it goes to ground water near the floor, the crawler loader will get buried. They have a higher ground pressure than a dozer, due to being narrow enough to drive into the slot cut by the bucket.
I'd do that soils and water investigation before I committed to any course of action.

 

[BackertheBiker]

Good input! I've dug a dozen test holes. Only ground water I hit was about 10' down at the dam, but good for me to hear this so I can be paying attention to that.

 

[skyking1]

how firm was it at the floor of the pond elevation?

 

[DMiller]

63s can be great machines as are heavy enough to down pressure make cuts. Any ideas on how well serviced, s/n of machine looking at, how well does it operate when test run it? the Bs I have been using were wonder weapons, can absolutely destroy a bunch of stuff in a hurry. will want a life estimate on Under Carriage by a good tech, will need hours on machine and last major work performed either report or receipts. The hydro on these will counter rotate track when full depress steering pedal.

 

[CM1995]

Welcome to the Forums BB. I closed the other thread and redirected here.

Just some friendly advice but never, ever say this before starting a job -

The dirt is mostly clay out here, shouldn't be any surprises or anything to make the job difficult.

Unless it's a job where you have very healthy unit pricing in the contract for undercut and replace...

 

[DMiller]

One
Aspect of the 963 you may not care for is fuel consumption, they are not bashful in such. As most machines this size are very thirsty.

 

[skyking1]

^ very important, as you do not want to pack 5's to a machine like that.

 

[BackertheBiker]

Thanks for all of the great replies so-far! Responses:

how firm was it at the floor of the pond elevation?

It was mostly dry and completely firm. Plenty to drive anything on. There was just one place where the dirt was a little wet and could be an issue. It's something I'll have to watch out for, certainly. It's mostly well-drained, slightly rocky clay up there though.

63s can be great machines as are heavy enough to down pressure make cuts. Any ideas on how well serviced, s/n of machine looking at, how well does it operate when test run it? the Bs I have been using were wonder weapons, can absolutely destroy a bunch of stuff in a hurry. will want a life estimate on Under Carriage by a good tech, will need hours on machine and last major work performed either report or receipts. The hydro on these will counter rotate track when full depress steering pedal.

The machine has been used sparingly, and well-maintained. Again, I'm not purchasing it, just borrowing from a good friend, so I just need to do general maintenance (fluids & filters) on it. If something major were to break while I have it, my buddy and I will work it out. I mostly just wondered if these have any achilles heel I need to keep an eye on. Anything I might not think of, that I could check occasionally and make sure I don't tear it up..

Welcome to the Forums BB. I closed the other thread and redirected here.

Just some friendly advice but never, ever say this before starting a job -





Unless it's a job where you have very healthy unit pricing in the contract for undercut and replace...

Appreciate the redirect! And yes I should know better, and have learned the lesson many times to not count your chickens before they hatch. EVERY job has a surprise or two.. I just haven't identified it yet. No contract though - I'm just doing this for myself.

One
Aspect of the 963 you may not care for is fuel consumption, they are not bashful in such. As most machines this size are very thirsty.

Any estimate what I'm looking at here? Is there a rule of thumb for how much fuel I'll use per yard, or per hour, etc.? To put a 9k yard dam together..? This is one piece of the puzzle I don't have any grasp of right now.. If it's going to be $5k in fuel, it may just make more sense for me to farm this out to the local dirt worker..

^ very important, as you do not want to pack 5's to a machine like that.

I assume you're talking about 5 gallon cans? Just picked up a 100 gallon tank on a little trailer - I had the same thought "No way I'm going to fill these both up with 5 gallon cans for this whole project"

 

[skyking1]

5 gallon cans are pretty tiresome on a 60 gallon a day machine. Best to have a pump tank. Note that the 60 gallons is a total Wild Ass Guess (WAG). It would not surprise me.

 

[BackertheBiker]

Shew! If I'm looking at 300 hours of cab time, and 60 gallons even in a 10 hour day - I'm approaching the cost that's been quoted to me for the job.. This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out - maybe I'll be just as well off hiring it out.. Anyone else have a guess on fuel consumption rates? @skyking1 I appreciate your input!

 

[bam1968]

I think 60 gals would be close. I obviously don't know your exact layout but i am having a hard time seeing how you could get 300 hours wrapped up in a 9000 yd dam. Just my $.02

 

[BackertheBiker]

Well there you go - I have no idea. Was just making a guess based on what I saw on other posts in the forum, but I'm probably not comparing apples to apples. I think somebody pointed out - if I figure an average of 2 minutes per push, and 2 yards per push, then I'm at 4,500 pushes and... I just did the math - it says 150 hours.

2nd Reply here is what I was basing my guess on: https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/how-long-to-build-1-acre-pond.47863/

Basically, having no experience moving dirt with a dozer, I have no way to judge this. What's your estimate? 350' long dam, 22' high

 

[DMiller]

We loaded at a clay pit, tractor shut off after roughly an hours worth of loading off a stockpile, three to four days of three loads in two separate trucks, ate 60 gallon.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think most Cat machines will run a 10 hour shift on a tank of fuel maybe 12 if doing easier work. Cat might have a chart showing fuel consumption but I'll see if I can find the size of the fuel tank.
Found a spec. that shows a 69 gallon fuel tank which would be very close to 60 gallons per 8 hour day like CM posted below. So figure about 7 to 7.5 gallons an hour in fairly heavy digging. I'm assuming the clay will be pretty packed. If the 963 has a ripper could loosen the material to make it easier to dig. If not a heavy disc would help.

 

[CM1995]

5 gallon cans are pretty tiresome on a 60 gallon a day machine. Best to have a pump tank. Note that the 60 gallons is a total Wild Ass Guess (WAG). It would not surprise me.

60 gallons for a hard 8 hour day should be close for a '63 however the A's and B's were a little better on fuel than the C's at least in the 953 series.

If we run our 953C hard all day for 8 HRS it burns 50-55 gallons easily. Trackloaders are thirsty but handy as a shirt pocket.

 

[Welder Dave]

The 963C looks to have about a 50 HP increase and larger bucket compared to earlier models.

 

[DMiller]

Cat was generally good at sizing fuel capacity for a full days work.

 

[Welder Dave]

Cat was generally good at sizing fuel capacity for a full days work.

My 931B doesn't have a fuel gauge but uses a dipstick. The dipstick is marked in tenths. It works out pretty close to 1 tenth is good for an hour of work.

 

[DMiller]

As did the 63Bs I ran, simple dipstick and in tenths.