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Hydraulic fluid flush on a Case 480ck

Abseim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
Arrggghhh... I'm so frustrated... Last week when I pulled my old water pump to order a replacement, I noticed that the front of the engine was a dirty oily mess, and that it was likely originating from the main crank seal at the front.

Studied the service and parts manual, called Dale at ebackhoe and ordered a seal, only $15, and proceed to start taking apart the hydraulic pump and the front pulley... Had to make 2 trips to the store to get all that done...

Finally get the front pulley loose and it needs another 1/2" of clearance to come out. Only way to get that clearance is to split the front off the tractor... I'm hate turning back after coming this far, but I just don't see how I can safely split this thing out in the woods... I suppose it's not leaking that bad... And I really need to get land cleared to get my shop up this summer...



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Seriously Case? What were you thinking?

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Abseim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
oof. that's rough.

Can you unbolt the engine from its mounts, and jack up the block to clear the frame there?
This is a 1968 480ck... It's from the time when backhoes were still mounted on AG tractors. The engine is part of the tractor chassis. Its cast iron all the way from the front to the back, with a loader and backhoe frame sitting over it.

I'd have to detach the front of the loader frame as well as the front wheels and steering..
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,865
Location
WI
I'd keep going. Unless you want to fill the engine with water and run it enough to get back to an easier place to work. Roll the front end forward a few inches and get it over with. You should be able to block up the engine, and brace off the loader to keep it all upright.
 

Abseim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
I'd keep going. Unless you want to fill the engine with water and run it enough to get back to an easier place to work. Roll the front end forward a few inches and get it over with. You should be able to block up the engine, and brace off the loader to keep it all upright.
Thanks for the encouragement, I'm really stubborn and I hate "giving up"... I took about 30 minutes to give it serious consideration and I decided that out here in the woods on the spongy ground without a way to confidently support and manipulate the separate pieces away and back towards each other, let alone do a careful procedure with my head and hands right in between the two sections, I really need to just put it back together and do the work this winter on solid ground once my shop is built.

Ugggh...


Time to solder the radiator!

And Dale had both radiator hoses and water pump in stock at a very fair prices!
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,865
Location
WI
Everything will come apart so much faster the second time. I've experienced that bonus many times.
 

Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
Everything will come apart so much faster the second time. I've experienced that bonus many times.

That was most of the trouble! Haha, it took 2 hours just to get the hydraulic pump out and required torching the 1" pressure fittings and beating on my big crescent wrench with a 4lb hammer like a crazy person just to get them loose.

Then I couldn't find a gear puller to fit so I made a custom one... That wasn't strong enough so I went to AutoZone and got a gear puller I was able to modify to fit and that finally popped the pulley loose
 

Coytee

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Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
205
Location
Knoxville, TN
I don't recall if you've finished the flush yet (side comment, one needs to ALWAYS finish their flush however, I digress.... lol)

Anyway, I saw you/someone say Hytran to refill it. I've got an International tractor that uses Hytran. Can't find it too close so was 90 minutes away and bought some there.

Two, five gallon buckets cost me approximatley $150 which floored me.

So, if I were going to empty and flush, I'd empty it. I'd find a 'cheap version' of Hytran. Refill it, run it to warm it up, put cylinders through their paces and then drain it out. Refilling again, with hytran.

I did that with the transmission fluid on my backhoe however, I flushed it with diesel. I had water in there (my rubber boot into transmission for shifter had rotted out so water was going straight in)

Fixed boot, drained it. Put some diesel in.... ran for 5 minutes or so (stablizers down holding tires up so I could run it forward/reverse without much of a drive load)

Did that 3-4 different times, using 2-3 gallons each time. Final time I drained and refilled with the regular transmission fluid (not Hytran) and intend this summer, to drain that again after I get some actual time on it.

The diesel went back into an empty hydraulic fluid bucket....and I used it for fire-starter fluid on my burn pile.
 

Abseim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
I don't recall if you've finished the flush yet (side comment, one needs to ALWAYS finish their flush however, I digress.... lol)

Anyway, I saw you/someone say Hytran to refill it. I've got an International tractor that uses Hytran. Can't find it too close so was 90 minutes away and bought some there.

Two, five gallon buckets cost me approximatley $150 which floored me.

So, if I were going to empty and flush, I'd empty it. I'd find a 'cheap version' of Hytran. Refill it, run it to warm it up, put cylinders through their paces and then drain it out. Refilling again, with hytran.

I did that with the transmission fluid on my backhoe however, I flushed it with diesel. I had water in there (my rubber boot into transmission for shifter had rotted out so water was going straight in)

Fixed boot, drained it. Put some diesel in.... ran for 5 minutes or so (stablizers down holding tires up so I could run it forward/reverse without much of a drive load)

Did that 3-4 different times, using 2-3 gallons each time. Final time I drained and refilled with the regular transmission fluid (not Hytran) and intend this summer, to drain that again after I get some actual time on it.

The diesel went back into an empty hydraulic fluid bucket....and I used it for fire-starter fluid on my burn pile.

I did the flush last week, I drained the reservoir and broke the main supply and return loops in several places and blew out all the fluid, then refilled with clean fluid and systematically went to each cylinder and broke the lines as close to the ends as I could and operated the spool til I saw clean fluid coming out, then connected to the retracted side of the cylinder and pushed the old fluid out of the other side. I think I was able to get at least 90-95% of the old fluid out this way, and only wasted about 3-4 gallons. I was able to capture most of the waste oil as well, probably spilled no more than a gallon, and when I was done I raked up as much of the oil soaked forest mulch as I could and had a nice little fire that burned for hours, haha.
 

Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
Update on progress...

After deciding not to split the tractor to replace the crank seal, I went ahead and installed the new water pump, put the radiator back in with new hoses, put the hydraulic pump back in, and closed up the front end.

I then went back through the fuel and throttle system cause that had been giving me issues as well. The governor spring was broken and had been replaced with a wire, which meant that the throttle was really touchy and the engine had no load response. Took the whole linkage apart and cleaned off caked grease, put in a hardware store spring, took carb apart again twice to adjust float valve so gas didn't leak out. I took out the mess of plumbing fittings on the output of gas tank and put in a glass fuel bowl, and blew a ton of rust from the fuel line.

I also removed the shuttle cover, it had been leaking all around the cover cause it was missing a gasket and I figured out why. Someone had tried to mess with it and discovered that in order to remove it, the whole steering column/gas tank/everything above transmission had to be lifted up about an inch to get clearance to remove from tractor. So I used a ratchet strap over the loader frame to lift it up just enough to slide it out. This also solved on of my mysterys... This machine actually has a H/L transfer case but someone hacked off the lever, WTF? I spent some time working the stub back and forth as well as moving the gears by hand and it seemed like the transfer case would work, so I put the cover back on with gasket sealant and marked the cover with H/L with a cutting disk. I suppose I could weld a new lever on, but I don't know why I would ever need it out of low. It was stuck in high before which was way to much for the woods.

I also put new teeth on the bucket, the old ones had been worn down enough to become rings...

Got it all out back together and put it to work for about 4 hours! Dug out two stumps and spent some time grading and leveling. This old machine wants to work! I think I've ripped out about 12 stumps so far...





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Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
Sounds like you got the fever. Something tells me that machine is gonna roll out of the new shop in the spring with shiny paint and new decals. It's a sickness, but there are worse things to spend your time on. Good job on your efforts so far.
Thanks! That would be awesome if I can get everything done like that! Hopefully I'll be able to find the time and money!

We currently live in an apartment in NYC where I am a general contractor, and we have spent the last 2 years of weekends building an off grid homestead in an old dense forest up in the Catskill mountains. Currently have a canvas wall tent with a woodstove, rainwater collection system that feeds a shower with a propane water heater, a sawmill, and now a backhoe!

Idk... After seeing how crazy this city got during the pandemic, we are doing everything we can to get out...

Eventually the plan is to build a small house with the sawmill, but first I need to get a shop put up so I have a place to work on stuff through the winter. Up here in the mountains we can have snow on the ground from December to the end of March...
 

Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
I have 2 questions for you all if you could help me figure them out.

#1 If you look at the pic above of the open transmission, the top section is the shuttle and dual range gearbox, and the bottom section is the 4 speed gearbox. The 4 speed section is connected to the final drive reservoir which gets filled with gear oil and has a dipstick. However, the shuttle section is connected to the torque tube with a standard clutch, and I can't find anywhere in the service manual about how much oil it takes, just that it wants hytran. One cutaway shows a dipstick in the torque tube, but I just have a cap. Any idea how full that reservoir should be? It's currently filled to cover the bottom half of the shuttle gears with some sort of thin red oil, that used to leak all over till I sealed the shuttle control cover.

#2. See pic:
There is a yellow light on the dash, the only thing on the dash that actually works, haha.
I don't fully understand what it's function is. I think it's telling me that the battery is discharging. When the key is on with the engine off, it's lit. Sometimes when I start the engine, it goes off, sometimes it stays on. If I rev up the engine it goes off and stays off. If the light is lit, the alternator makes no sparks. If the light is off, I can see the alternator brushes sparking. I've read the service, operator, and parts manuals several times and it doesn't say anything about this light...IMG_1465.jpeg
 

rumblecloud

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Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
186
Location
Michigan
Occupation
Living the dream...:]
I just gotta say this:
You and your significant other have my complete admiration - you're both crazy, but in a good way.
I'll be following along on your journey.

Randall
 

Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
I just gotta say this:
You and your significant other have my complete admiration - you're both crazy, but in a good way.
I'll be following along on your journey.

Randall
I definitely have enough crazy in me for both of us, she's the one who keeps my feet on the ground, haha. She homeschools our two kids as well, she said she couldn't send them back to the public school system with a clear conscience after all the covid bullshit that went on here...

It's been a long interesting journey so far, I can't even remember what we did with our spare time before we bought our land upstate. I've pretty much been working 7 days a week since we got it. Lately we've been doing 4 days in the city and then 3 days in the mountains...

I built my kids a tiny house that's insulated and has a vented propane heater, they even spend the night in there by themselves about once a month... I built most of it from extra materials and scraps from my projects in the city, and the kids insisted that they got to do all the painting themselves. I took them to Ace and said they could get anything they wanted from the mis-tint clearance shelf by the paint counter!

Here's a pic of our cabin tent and the kid's "fort" as they call it:
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rumblecloud

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Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
186
Location
Michigan
Occupation
Living the dream...:]
When my wife an I decided to get out of the "township" where we lived in the early 90s and get out in the country where we are today, it was for many of the same reasons. Harrison Township here in MI was becoming a boaters paradise/party central. We sold our home and had just enough to get a dry-in log cabin structure -meaning no heating, plumbing, electrical etc.. So for over a year we improvised while she an I did the all the other stuff.
I do remember rain water bucket showers as I am sure you are familiar with as well. :p
 

Abseim

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Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
Here's the latest update, the bucket cylinder was the next seal to go, I finally got a good pic of what old gland seaks look like. They crumble apart as if it was made from brittle wax. It's definitely not original, the cylinders on this machine have clearly been rebuilt many times in the field by some rather ham fisted mechanics. I wonder if these were cheep off brand seals, or if there was something incompatible in the runny mayonnaise that used to run through this hydraulic system.

This gland nut had been beaten on on nearly every surface and was quite distorted really bad in one spot on the outer lip and prevented the nut from screwing in the last turn or two and had been previously sealed by an entire roll Teflon tap. If it had been a smaller burr I'd be comfortable filing by hand, but this was over a pretty big area. Would be easy to clean up on a lathe.

I have a old south bend lathe burried behind woodworking tools in my shop in the city a few hours away, and eventually I'll move it to my new shop here in the mountains, and I'm already up here til memorial day...

I started filing it and realized it was going to take forever, so I figured I could grind off the bulk first... I got the idea to tack weld a quick bracket to my anvil to hold my angle grinder a fixed height like a mini surface grinder... I just had to file the face down flat and then carefully work the nut under the spinning disc and clean up the face of the nut that meets the cylinder. Worked perfectly!

Hopefully my explanation makes sense, I recorded a quick video but not sure if I can share here


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Abseim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2023
Messages
62
Location
New York
I had asked this question previously in this thread but then got sidetracked a bit, haha...




There is a yellow light on the dash, the only thing on the dash that actually works!

I don't fully understand what it's function is. I just noticed last week that at just the right angle you can see that it used to say "GEN".

I think it's telling me that the battery is discharging. When the key is on with the engine off, it's lit. Sometimes when I start the engine, it goes off, but most times it stays on. If I rev up the engine on the carb by hand beyond full throttle, it goes off and stays off. If the light is lit, the generator makes no sparks. If the light is off, I can see the generator brushes sparking. I've read the service, operator, and parts manuals several times and it doesn't say anything about the function of this light...

I suppose my main question is, why doesn't the generator just start generating when I start the engine? Why do I have to rev it up crazy fast first? This has caught me a few times where I forgot to rev it up and get it generating, and 20min later the engine dies with a dead battery...

Is this a sign of a failing generator? Failing voltage regulator? Corroded wiring?
 
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