John Deere 160clc slow and week functions intermittent

[The Dirt Guy]

So my progress has not went well as of now...I had a new pilot pump and pilot relief manifold installed and flushed the hydraulic fluid 7 times. At first the machine seemed to have been fixed, I then took it to a job and it ran like a champ for the first day. The second day functions seem to have slowed back down but was tolerable. The third day my left track stopped but would function when I tried to swing and then it straightened back up and worked normally after about an hour. The fourth day, the track stopped again and i decided to load it up and bring it back to look at. While trying to load, the left track would not function with the pedal but would function with boom up or down. Hauled the machine to the yard and when i went to unload nothing would work hydraulically but you could tell the mahine was trying but nothing stick and swing would barely work. Pump 1 20 mpi Pump 2 less than 10...i had to drag the machine off the low boy. I pulled the filters and the pilot system is full of metal again...and i am assuming my best next step is to just replace both the pilot pump and main pump this time...any thoughts on this?

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Dirt Guy - did you have any luck solving your problem? I have a similar problem with my Deere 160clc; intermittent slow/low power hydraulics. A couple of days ago I was in slow/low power mode but didn’t really notice until I went to travel - so slow. Then suddenly fast tracking. When I got to where I wanted to be all functions were faster and more powerful. Lasted the rest of that day and part of the next, then back to slow/low power for the last two days. It never pulls the engine down. This could get old real fast. I can’t believe the time/money you’ve spent on your machine. I guess I will have to study all of the posts here to try to identify all the pieces and guess where to start looking. Intermittent problems really suck!

No luck it has been very difficult for me here and i have been around this machine several times and the dealership is not useful either here in TN. I am at the point of selling the machine now unfortunately but i really want to figure it out because i have seen a lot of people having the same issue but amazingly no one knows the solution. I know its expensive but i started with diagnosing the system using the display and then i checked the reliefs and replace 90% of them too just for peace of mind but all gave temporary fixes and the issue came back. let me know if you need any more information and i will try to help maybe both of us working on our machines will eventually find a solution. Im 25k in my repairs and that is with me doing 90% labor so I know i would like to figure it out and save from selling my machine is been too good just to part out.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Anyone have a parts machine I would be interested in it.

 

[Diesel Dave]

So my progress has not went well as of now...I had a new pilot pump and pilot relief manifold installed and flushed the hydraulic fluid 7 times. At first the machine seemed to have been fixed. I pulled the filters and the pilot system is full of metal again...and i am assuming my best next step is to just replace both the pilot pump and main pump this time...any thoughts on this?

The pilot pump pulls it’s oil directly from the main hydraulic pump housing.
Sounds like the pilot filter is capturing most of the debris that the main hydraulic pump is creating. I’m thinking that’s why you have seen very little contamination downstream in the hydraulic filter or in the hydraulic tank.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

The pilot pump pulls it’s oil directly from the main hydraulic pump housing.
Sounds like the pilot filter is capturing most of the debris that the main hydraulic pump is creating. I’m thinking that’s why you have seen very little contamination downstream in the hydraulic filter or in the hydraulic tank.

Ok so you have sparked my interest again with the pilot system...can you elaborate on your comment that the pilot pump pulls from the main pump housing...what i am finding is the pilot system pull from the tank and feeds the pilot system, and feeds the main pump resulting in the main pump stagging to the higher pressures required.

 

[mg2361]

the pilot system is full of metal again

My experience has been when something is failing on Deere excavators, the debris is caught in the pilot filter first. That debris is probably in the pilot signal manifold, as well as anything else that requires pilot oil, creating havoc in the system. The source of that metal needs to be determined. Then, most likely, a full system clean up is in order. Do you have pictures of the metal?

Also, the code flashing is 88 which is no codes.

I just saw your video. Though not related to your hydraulic issue, those codes flash 32, 88, 33, 88. That is caused by either a loose ground or paint under the ground eyelet for the ECU.

can you elaborate on your comment that the pilot pump pulls from the main pump housing

On many Deere excavators, the pilot pump pulls oil from the main pump's suction line, not directly from the reservoir.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Ok so you have sparked my interest again with the pilot system...can you elaborate on your comment that the pilot pump pulls from the main pump housing...what i am finding is the pilot system pull from the tank and feeds the pilot system, and feeds the main pump resulting in the main pump stagging to the higher pressures required.

 

[The Dirt Guy]

View attachment 286636View attachment 286637

 

[Diesel Dave]

IIRC, the pilot pumps that were mounted to the main hydraulic pump housing (on the drive coupling / flywheel side) pulled their oil through a passage at the front of the pilot pump.

 

[Diesel Dave]

Do you still have the old pilot pump that was changed ?

 

[The Dirt Guy]

 

[Diesel Dave]

 

[Diesel Dave]

The 4 bolt flange bolts directly to the main hydraulic pump housing.
I pointed out the inlet and outlet ports.
Looking at all the pictures, the old pilot pump sure has TONS of wear in 4000 hours !
Before doing all the oil flushes , did you see any filings/ debris in the bottom of the hydraulic tank or in the suction screen ?

 

[mg2361]

Great memory, Dave! I forgot those pilot pumps on the 160C's were inside the flywheel housing.

 

[RandiB]

I'm sorry that I can't help The Dirt Guy, but this thread got me to learn how to use the display for the monitor controller and discovered that when I have slow/low power hydraulics, the actual engine speed reads zero. The few times I have good hydraulics, I get an engine speed that varies as I change the throttle setting - then it's gone and I'm back to where I started. So we changed the engine speed sensor and still have the same problem :-( The wires from the sensor to the round aluminum connector behind the cab in the battery compartment seem good (have continuity). Any suggestions on where I go from here?

 

[The Dirt Guy]

Dave i see what your saying now.....also this old pump was the original at 10k hrs so normal wear and tear still? the new one that has failed too is still on the machine with estimated 15hrs on it....i want to be hopeful that there was mechanical failure in this pump shaft broke something because it makes no sense for it to fail after flushing and cleaingin the system

 

[The Dirt Guy]

I'm sorry that I can't help The Dirt Guy, but this thread got me to learn how to use the display for the monitor controller and discovered that when I have slow/low power hydraulics, the actual engine speed reads zero. The few times I have good hydraulics, I get an engine speed that varies as I change the throttle setting - then it's gone and I'm back to where I started. So we changed the engine speed sensor and still have the same problem :-( The wires from the sensor to the round aluminum connector behind the cab in the battery compartment seem good (have continuity). Any suggestions on where I go from here?

start a new thread and dont piggy back on one that is still active....it make it a headache for the members when following the conversation.

 

[Diesel Dave]

I am sure there is wear on the pump given the hours but supposedly the pump has 4k hours on it.

If the new or reman main hydraulic pump was purchased from Deere or a reputable supplier, the pilot pump would have been included.

Looking at all the pictures, the old pilot pump sure has TONS of wear in 4000 hours !
Before doing all the oil flushes , did you see any filings/ debris in the bottom of the hydraulic tank or in the suction screen ?

What did you find if anything on the bottom of the hydraulic tank or on the suction screen ?

 

[The Dirt Guy]

I have not purchased the new main pump yet and yes your correct on that the pilot pump would be included....I replaced the pilot pump and pilot relief manifold initially and now i am considering replacing it again but with a new main pump. As far as finding anything in the bottom of the hydraulic tank or suction screen no nothing other than fine metal debris (appeared to be aluminum which is in line with the 1st pilot pump condition initially, photos above), but now im thinking the main pump is the culprit. when it was at the dealership flow test was performed and the main pump was in spec but at the very bottom, and i am assuming the higher pressure with the pilot system finally operating may have caused the main pump to let go internally and send debris to the system. That is my assessment right now but could change once i pull the filters and drain the system again and reassess the condition but i am anticipating on pulling the main pump sending to be rebuilt with new pilot pump.

 

[Diesel Dave]

I like it !!