John Deere 230 LC Starter Problems

[Shimmy1]

Heh heh... I know Shimmy1 Just thought I would give it another mention because I have seen this happen a number of times on different machines in that make, from what the OP is saying I think it could still be the problem.. the easiest way to rule it out is remove the key switch and check it.

Hey man, I was agreeing with ya! These excavators seem to be a bit more complicated nowadays, but my order of operations is: voltmeter at battery, then starter, then have someone turn switch while I'm checking at the start terminal on starter solenoid, if that's dead then it gets a little tougher, have to track back to relays and/or switch, in the meantime jumper wire to start terminal to make sure starter is functional, you all get the point I'm sure. I'll stop rambling now.

 

[rmllarue91]

Okay with key on do you get power on one small terminal and ground on the other small terminal on relay.
When you bolt large wires together bypass solenoid does it start with the key?
I read the thread twice and I'm confused Lol
you can bench test them relays with continuity tester and 24v power and ground

 

[Delmer]

You're not the only one confused.

When you (original poster) say the solenoid clicks with the key, that means you turn the key and the solenoid on the starter clicks? but doesn't crank. Even with the relay bypassed, cables bolted together?

It will crank and start when you cross over the starter. Is crossing over connecting the big terminals or just getting power to the small solenoid terminal?

 

[lantraxco]

I hooked the starter wire straight on battery and starter crossed over. I just cant start it with a key. The battery relay is not getting power on the starter side. This is a brand new battery relay. Can anyone please help?

Start here. With the battery relay open, there is no power to anything other than the key switch. When the key switch is moved in either direction, left for preheat if the machine has it, or right to turn on and further to start, then power is sent to the small terminal on the main battery relay, which should close it and send battery power to the starter main terminal and basically every other circuit in the machine. Check that you have voltage at the switch with the switch off, then voltage at the battery relay small activation terminal. If you do, and there is no voltage at the large terminal on the side towards the starter, but there is 24V on the battery side, then you have a bad battery relay. If you don't have voltage at the small activating terminal you have a broken wire, bad key switch, blown fuse or fusible link between the battery and the key switch, etc.

 

[Shimmy1]

View attachment 128746

The big terminal(#18) from relay (#8) to starter was marked black is what threw me off. I am getting no power on #18. On that first relay (#8) coming off the battery hince why I assumed it was a ground. So I should be getting power on both sides of the relay (#8)? Would that relay going bad cause the machine to just stop? I changed it out with one I had on the truck assuming it was good but not sure. I have checked all connections, everything seems to be nice and tight.

Thank you so much for your replies so far.

OMG, this has to be something simple. You HAVE to have battery power on both sides of relay #8 for this machine to start!? Relay #8 SHOULD be activated by the key switch. On my old Case machines, the key controlled a ground circuit to activate the master relay. They did it this way because then there would be no power to anything but the relay itself. My old Komatsu dozer was this way also. I believe newer machines must use power from the key to activate the relay because on my new 210 the clocks in the cab always keep time? You seem to keep saying you can't get power through #18 right? We need to determine how relay #8 is activated.

 

[lantraxco]

YES, when the switch is off, you should have power to the battery side of #8 and none on the starter side, with the key on, you should have power on both sides. Again, check the small terminals on Relay #8, one should be ground, the other should be switched from the key switch. Yes, if the relay fails, or loses power to the coil, the whole machine shuts off. You can temporarily bolt the cable #18 to the battery side lug on the relay along with the battery cable #28, essentially bypassing the relay. Everything should work normally. If that's not true you have bigger problems.

 

[jlittle2212]

YES, when the switch is off, you should have power to the battery side of #8 and none on the starter side, with the key on, you should have power on both sides. Again, check the small terminals on Relay #8, one should be ground, the other should be switched from the key switch. Yes, if the relay fails, or loses power to the coil, the whole machine shuts off. You can temporarily bolt the cable #18 to the battery side lug on the relay along with the battery cable #28, essentially bypassing the relay. Everything should work normally. If that's not true you have bigger problems.

That is where I am now. #18 is temporarily bolted to the battery lug and key will still not start the machine. I am still having to cross it over at the starter to make it operate. I will do some more testing today and post some more updates.


Thanks for the help so far!

 

[707]

When you turn the key do you have dash lights? if not, check your load dump relay diode. it is located fuse box area, should be a tiny thing two wire with a white female connector and black diode.

 

[lantraxco]

Are you getting power to the key switch? Sounds like 707 has some direct experience with the Deere machines, follow up on that.

 

[jlittle2212]

When you turn the key do you have dash lights? if not, check your load dump relay diode. it is located fuse box area, should be a tiny thing two wire with a white female connector and black diode.

I do now have dash lights. My problem is I need to know where the two red wires on top of the battery relay goes. I am not getting any power to the top of the battery relay now. Also, what is the places the three fuse blocks above the battery on the battery relay. I want to make sure those are right too. I have one fuse block on the battery hot, and two on the starter lead.

I can take a jumper wire and jump power to the hot on top of the battery relay and can start it with the key. I need a schematic. The local Deere dealer will not print me one off for some reason.:Banghead

Thanks everyone for your input so far!

 

[rmllarue91]

Okay your getting some were does the other small wire have ground all the time or only when key is on that will tell if they switch by power or ground maybe some knows off the top I'm not sure. If it constant ground chances are power comes right from key switch does the key switch have one wire that is hot at all times

 

[rmllarue91]

And one that is hot in run position not to insult anyone but always try to view electronics in a a circle from one battery post to another you need power and ground. Diagnostics are usually easiest by starting at symptoms a and back tracking till you find something that is working. But don't forget to double check your work when in depth and try to look at big picture

 

[jlittle2212]

The key switch does have one hot all the time. The red wire. When you turn the key, like to start, I have power on 4 if I remember correctly. The other small wire on the battery relay has ground all the time.

 

[Shimmy1]

....

 

[rmllarue91]

What's important is how many are hot In run if it isn't a bad key switch I'm of no more help with out a schematic just wanted to help narrow down.

 

[rmllarue91]

Dealers are tough some times. my local john deere dealer has a service manager that will go out of his way to help. Now they added second service manager and he's not as worried about helping competition lol.

 

[jlittle2212]

What's important is how many are hot In run if it isn't a bad key switch I'm of no more help with out a schematic just wanted to help narrow down.

I have also ran out of ideas. Maybe someone with some good John Deere insight can chime in on this! Thanks for all your help.

 

[rmllarue91]

How many wires have power with key in run not cranks?

 

[jlittle2212]

How many wires have power with key in run not cranks?

Just the one red wire.

 

[rmllarue91]

I would change key switch maybe if you buy key switch they would print you off schematic