SANY long term owners/operators

[DirtLife]

I looked at the Sany when I was shopping. I think the doosan/develon/Bobcat quality was better than sany.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

One reason is resale value.

Speaking just for my position I would still be close to 100k in the negative even being able to sell the CAT machine when im done. The price spread is just that much between both brands whether I buy brand new or comparably used in the 1,500hr and under range.

Used market listings for 6-8 year old CAT 349 and 352 with 15,000hr or more are not looking to return more than 100k in resale. Im into a CAT machine for almost 200k more than a SANY if I buy new and between 200k and 250k if I buy used. From the numbers I have now from the current market the CAT will outright cost me more. Only thing that could bring it around is very expensive repairs on the SANY.

 

[skyking1]

I don't see any Sany in your sig

 

[smifwal]

While my last post was obviously a hyperbole, the fact is where we spend our money does matter. Every time you buy something you are voting with your pocket book, the larger the amount the bigger the vote. When you buy from Sany or other Chinese companies, your money is going back to China and indirectly the CCP. They like your money, but that is it. I personally don't want to further the agenda of a government that hates our freedom, our political system, our economic system and our way of life. I won't even get into their horrible working conditions, cyber terrorism, complete disregard for intellectual property, etc.

Part of the reason we are headed down this road in the first place is an ever growing number of consumers want everything cheap, they want it now, and they don't care about anyone else. Their bottom line is the only thing that matters, to hell with the everyone else, our country, our future. It seems like this is now the mentality of not only most individuals but also many businesses.

Obviously your mind is made up, but I hope others reading this thread in the future take at least a little time think about where their money is going and what it means in the big picture. One purchase may not seem like it makes a difference, but multiplied by many that have the same mindset, over many years, it certainly does.

There is no context in the written word so don't take offense to my response but in this day and age it is nearly impossible to buy only American made products and when you can, much like this example it is financially irresponsible to do so. I see so much waste in daily life. My cat field service guys and Sitech leave there trucks running the entire time they are here they take there service trucks home at night, most of them live at least a hour out side of town, when I go in to the dealership,I see people walking around, huddle up chatting about their kids and so on. I personally am trying to get a head in life and buying that American machine puts me behind the curve when I could almost purchase 2 machines for the same price or a beat up used machine that cost the same as this brand new one with a warranty. I don't expect a fortune when I sell it but that is ok I made my money with it and it was half the effort to make the payment or in my case it gave me the extra money to add the grade controls. I am still not at the base price for the cat equivalent.

 

[SteinarN]

This thread became slightly political...
I am also from a high cost country. I too buy from China, not large stuff like excavators though.

What I have come to realise...

Some of the stuff from China is of very low quality. Other stuff is very good. A LOT of oem parts for western equipment is made in china. In my professional field when I order parts for/from a very large USA originating multinational company I see that a lot of the parts are made in low cost countries like China and Mexico. Some are made in like France, Germany, USA etc.

What I see is that China is a very large country with either or both a very efficient production line due to mass production or alternatively lower efficiency production but with low wage workers and/or very low cost production facilities. I also feel the overhead in China is much lower than in western countries.

And, I am damned sure that chinese companies is satisfied as long as they can pay their bills, but western companies is only satisfied after their ceo's and other executive personell have received multi million dollar yearly so called "compensations" AND the total profit margin is at least ten percent, but more like twenty percent. I see this hunt for ever increasing executive pay, ever increasing stock price and ever increasing overall profit margin as the biggest problem making many western companies unable to compete on price/quality with chinese companies.

 

[Welder Dave]

I'd wager at least 65% of small items people buy come from China. Forget big ticket items, small items no one thinks about add up to a whole lot more than the big items. Many American companies get their products or components for their products from China. This includes Cat.

If something happened where absolutely no products from China were allowed to come into N. America, would be devastating. The quality of living would go way down because people couldn't afford to have the things they have now. Just have to look at the price of tools to get an idea. Professional mechanics could/would have high end expensive tools because they make their money with them. People who just like to fix their own things aren't going to be able to afford $10K or more just for basic tools. Who wants to pay $100 to buy a wrench they need to heat and bend to replace a hyd. hose. Everything would be so expensive if it all had to come from the US/N. America. There's not a country in he world that is self supportive. It's a global economy.

I think things could be a lot better though. What irks me is products that used to be made in N. America moving their production to China yet the price doesn't come down. The quality may or may not be the same. Milwaukee cordless tools are fairly expensive in my opinion and they're made in China. If they were made in the US I expect the price would be out of reach for a lot of people who have them now.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

I don't see any Sany in your sig

Ill update as soon as they're mine. Dont want them on the books until next year for that white bearded uncle of ours.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

Great discussion guys. I do agree on most points but lets try not to get this thread closed or edited down with a bunch of posts missing leading future readers to wonder who's responding to what.

Being in business with a crew of 13 full time and another 3 part time, I have to compete with others. I wouldnt even be able to have purchased the land we are on now and have my full crew secured with work for at least the next 6 years. Call me cheap, call me anti domestic brands, but at the end of the day ive always beat my competition and kept my guys working for the past 27 years in business.

 

[Welder Dave]

You have to do what works for you as long as it's ethical. Running and keeping a business afloat is no small task. Add employee's and everything else to the mix and it's a real balancing and sanity act. Some people would rather not have the hassle and prefer to work for someone else. Sadly there are some real shysters out there.

 

[skyking1]

good that you have a niche there were you can keep your guys busy. The bottom line is how well they do the job without much in the way of unscheduled repairs, and the availability of parts and service. That is the big leveler here.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

good that you have a niche there were you can keep your guys busy. The bottom line is how well they do the job without much in the way of unscheduled repairs, and the availability of parts and service. That is the big leveler here.

Luckily at this point in the business ive got "extra" in resources and machines to have that luxury of not stressing over interruptions as others would. Machine goes down and repair is a ways out we just move it aside and pull one of the golden oldies to pick up the slack. My goal by the 1st quarter of next year is to have all of my 30 ton excavators as extras. They can sit here and there while we focus on the main project using the new 50 ton excavators. They dont owe me anything but will be invaluable if they are needed. Same with my older wheel loaders, one or two can sit as a contingency plan while the newer two are utilized.

Im in talks now with my local Develon to purchase a whole bunch of brand new stuff for next year, excavators, haul trucks, and loaders. The project has expanded much further than originally anticipated when I was just looking for another 50 ton excavator.

 

[KSSS]

There was a conversation a long time ago here about Sany and other Chinese companies. At the time, Sany had just recently made a big push into NA. They had a large presence at Conexpo that year. The equipment wasn't that good then. I said that the Chinese will get it together, that their quality will improve, and I thought that most of those improvements would be on the backs of other companies world wide, but mostly North American OEM's (through patent theft and so forth). But regardless, at the end of the day, they have come here to compete and they are.

 

[CM1995]

Drove by one of the larger Equipment Share lots in my area that were full of Sany's a few years ago that are now full of Linkbelts and Deere's.

Take that info along with $2 and one can buy a cup of coffee.

 

[skyking1]

Luckily at this point in the business ive got "extra" in resources and machines to have that luxury of not stressing over interruptions as others would. Machine goes down and repair is a ways out we just move it aside and pull one of the golden oldies to pick up the slack. My goal by the 1st quarter of next year is to have all of my 30 ton excavators as extras. They can sit here and there while we focus on the main project using the new 50 ton excavators. They dont owe me anything but will be invaluable if they are needed. Same with my older wheel loaders, one or two can sit as a contingency plan while the newer two are utilized.

Im in talks now with my local Develon to purchase a whole bunch of brand new stuff for next year, excavators, haul trucks, and loaders. The project has expanded much further than originally anticipated when I was just looking for another 50 ton excavator.

For me personally, I can load a ton of material out per shift with an old spade bucket 988B if the pit floor can take it.
I did 90,000 yards of topsoil for a landfill cover job and the farm held up OK. Couple hundred 8 axle trucks on a good day. It was farm stripping so I had a couple of dozers heaping it up for me.
A big hoe on the right cut can beat it, but having it around is priceless.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

For me personally, I can load a ton of material out per shift with an old spade bucket 988B if the pit floor can take it.
I did 90,000 yards of topsoil for a landfill cover job and the farm held up OK. Couple hundred 8 axle trucks on a good day. It was farm stripping so I had a couple of dozers heaping it up for me.
A big hoe on the right cut can beat it, but having it around is priceless.

Ive got a 9050, and 9050B that I bought 2.3yd buckets for when I started this project. We dont measure in yards but instead tons. The 9050B was loading out about 4,400 tons in a 10 hour shift before the SANY SY500's showed up. The older 9050 has been on clearing the whole time but I cant imagine it would be far behind. I also purchased two newer JCB JS370LC that easily outwork both older 9050.

Right now the two JS370 and 9050B are on clearing while the 9050 and a JS300 sit the sideline with on/off use clearing. Two Cat 345 and one Sany SY500 are on sand/gravel, one SY500 and Hitachi EX550 are on ledge. One Michigan L190 is on crusher duty soon to be replaced by two Kawasaki 115zv. My three old Macks are being used as haul trucks right now and eventually replaced with one Bell B50 and two or three Develon DA45.

 

[skyking1]

Topsoil never got weighed it just did not weigh up, it cubed up. So yards it was. The game there was to stuff it as full as I could and still have freeboard. There was a college kid manning a water spray bar as they exited, so they did not have to tarp.

 

[MG84]

A lot of people seem to mistake the whole 'Made in China' issue to mean you can buy made in USA for top dollar or made in China for bottom dollar, but those are only the two extremes. While I do buy made in USA whenever I can, I also buy from other top tier manufacturing countries such as Japan, Germany, UK, Canada, etc. For 'cheap' things I'll gladly buy them from Taiwan (they make some good stuff too), Mexico, India, Korea, basically anywhere but China. I just don't feel good about supporting our biggest adversary. Yes, it's unavoidable to get some things made in China and many components on 'good brands' come from China, but when given the choice I avoid it.

Next time any of yall go through Harbor Freight which is notorious for selling made in China stuff, start looking at the labels. You'll find many things (usually the higher quality stuff) is made in India, Taiwan, even the USA. Usually, but not always, there are alternatives to things made in China. Yes they cost more, but are often better quality too.

I learned long ago the cheapest item is rarely the best value. This seems to hold true whether it's something as small as a zip tie or a light bulb, or as expensive as a large piece of machinery. Buy once, cry once. That said, sometimes the most expensive is the best value, but sometimes it's not.

I don't own any Cat equipment, because I think their prices are unreasonable for what you get. Maybe in some of the large equipment the value is there, but in the size equipment I run I just don't see it. There are other brands made in USA or Japan that make very good equipment for the money.

 

[HarleyHappy]

Hell, we all get it. China is a communist country that doesn’t have our best interests at heart. I wish everything I bought could be made here but oftentimes, that isn’t even possible.
Unfortunately when it comes to big ticket items, you have to look at everything. Sometimes the initial cost, is not the only component to the pie.
Those Sany machines, will not be worth much when you’re done but whatever they are worth, is free money, free interest, cash.
This whole thread was much smaller, half million, now we’re into THE millions.
Good luck, hope your kids take this over soon, so you can retire.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

Good luck, hope your kids take this over soon, so you can retire.

Thank you for the thought. Unfortunately the family has no interest in this type of work. My #2 for the past 27 years will be buying me out down the road probably 4 or 5 years. Ill then step down into the CFO/COO position in his company. I have no plans to truly retire, I love this work.

 

[DM&RDBulldog]

Not trying to stir the pot with this but all brands have a Chinese heavy-handed involvement. Caterpillar China Investment Co Ltd has been registered to Caterpillar since the 90s. John Deere China Investment Co Ltd exists as well. They both have engineering, manufacturing, and financial headquarters in China paying into the CCP exorbitantly.