-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
scraper questions
- Thread starter 637slayer
- Start date
surfer-joe
Senior Member
I've run what some folks call frost bits for years. The main reason for using them is that they cut a little deeper with less effort by the scraper. If you are just hogging dirt it's the only way to go. Use the thickest edges you can buy. They do allow easier penetration into hard materials or frozen ground too.
If you are doing cleanup work and need longer but smoother cuts, than use the narrower edges for a straight edge cut.
One should keep the apron closed when running empty till you are turning into the cut. This keeps the edges from throwing dirt and rocks into the air at speed, where they might hit someone close by or perhaps a windshield on a passing or following vehicle.
Ya can't see the edge when cutting anyway with a scraper. It's all a matter of feel and knowing about where your forward edge is at in the cut. A "seat of the pants" thing if you will. It doesn't take long to become familiar with how deep you cut or fill with scraper. If it does, than you are likely not suited for scraper operations anyway and should go look for another machine to operate.
If you are doing cleanup work and need longer but smoother cuts, than use the narrower edges for a straight edge cut.
One should keep the apron closed when running empty till you are turning into the cut. This keeps the edges from throwing dirt and rocks into the air at speed, where they might hit someone close by or perhaps a windshield on a passing or following vehicle.
Ya can't see the edge when cutting anyway with a scraper. It's all a matter of feel and knowing about where your forward edge is at in the cut. A "seat of the pants" thing if you will. It doesn't take long to become familiar with how deep you cut or fill with scraper. If it does, than you are likely not suited for scraper operations anyway and should go look for another machine to operate.
DPete
Senior Member
I've been around scrapers for a while but have never heard of the term "frost bit", does that mean drop center?
yep just a dropped center bit, i was just wondering how other outfits or people run. ive only worked for three different companys, the first one that broke me in i worked for them for 14 years and swore by the centerbit, and the place i work now dont even know what they are. i was also taught to run with my crowd back and lip shut, but i work with people now that run with lip open banging away, i ask them why and they all say "so i can see my edges" so i ask them how can you dig without seeing your edges? some of them see my point others just dont get it.so i point out that with your lip open all the dust kicked up by your front tires goes right under your open lip through the can right to your back air cleaner. i get so mad sometimes i stop new guys and point out some one traveling with it open, once they see the back engine engulfed with dust up over the air sucker they see my point some listen to me some dont.
DPete
Senior Member
Drop center is the only way to go for bulking dirt even on our 623 that center 5 ft. will feed the elevator. It makes the cut a little rough but sure cuts down the loading time plus easier on the machine. Have to run a hardfaced edge though or it's gone.
Construct'O
Senior Member
Frost bite is the center edge on the bowl and extends down farther,like said above.
As far as running witht the lip up i did alot.Just wanted to make sure when i got back to the cut it was set already for what i was cutting in.Have been tired and get to the cut and part way through just watching ahead of me with several scrapers loading at the same time in the cut going on feel and look to see the bowl was just sliding along with out the dirt loading.More so when out on the town to late.
Different types of dirt i would keep the lip tight,not opened to wide to let the dirt come in as fast.Like when finishing,or when we were working in glasier clay.The kind that start up in the scraper and before you know it is 20ft tall the breaks and fall over the back of the scraper.If you would watch you could quickly close the lip and the slab would quite and fall, not always,then open the lip easy and the the dirt would start loading again,this time more normal.Didn't always work ,but helped.Exceptions to every rule!!!!!!!
If you was loading mud,and had to go aways in the cut before you hit hard ground,so you wouldn't get the push cat stuck i would run with the lip wider open to watch how it was loading,then close as it got started.Again sometimes you needed to skim the whole cut ,would only get a half load ,but didn't stick the pushcat.Nothing ,made for a bad day then burying the pushcat.It was always better to be standing or setting on your scraper watching the other scraper hand pulling the cable.
If you can see the rooter bits(corner bits) they would help you gage how much you was cutting.Plus watching how the dirt is coming in the scraper bowl is another sign how things are going.On bigger machine watching the hoist cyclinders you could tell.Again with the lip up to the cross beam you can see how much dirt is going in the bowl,but in sucky dirt and mud it will try to suck deeper with the lip up.Theres where the feel comes also and timing ,when to know to close the lip down or open it up farther.Been in muddy cuts where you was loading the mud good then all of a sudden a bid chunk would start sliding in front of the bowl.Hopefully you was getting close to the end of the cut and could pickup and drag it out of the way.If not there was a good change it would stick you.
The biggest thing is getting started right.Coming in the cut close to the ground and as fast as you can,and in my days D9 or two picking you up you didn't want to get it stuck in the gorund to hard until you got picked up,then you let up on the throttle get set in,other push cat picks you up and adjust throttle and your off.Unless you hit a big boulder or rock.Another story right.
Always hated being push with at straight dozer,that when i wanted to get off and beat the crap out of some of them guys pushing me.Bang ,bang ,all day long.There was like everything a few,very few that even with a straight dozer could pick you up smooth with out hardly a nugde.My brother was one of them.:usa
As far as running witht the lip up i did alot.Just wanted to make sure when i got back to the cut it was set already for what i was cutting in.Have been tired and get to the cut and part way through just watching ahead of me with several scrapers loading at the same time in the cut going on feel and look to see the bowl was just sliding along with out the dirt loading.More so when out on the town to late.
Different types of dirt i would keep the lip tight,not opened to wide to let the dirt come in as fast.Like when finishing,or when we were working in glasier clay.The kind that start up in the scraper and before you know it is 20ft tall the breaks and fall over the back of the scraper.If you would watch you could quickly close the lip and the slab would quite and fall, not always,then open the lip easy and the the dirt would start loading again,this time more normal.Didn't always work ,but helped.Exceptions to every rule!!!!!!!
If you was loading mud,and had to go aways in the cut before you hit hard ground,so you wouldn't get the push cat stuck i would run with the lip wider open to watch how it was loading,then close as it got started.Again sometimes you needed to skim the whole cut ,would only get a half load ,but didn't stick the pushcat.Nothing ,made for a bad day then burying the pushcat.It was always better to be standing or setting on your scraper watching the other scraper hand pulling the cable.
If you can see the rooter bits(corner bits) they would help you gage how much you was cutting.Plus watching how the dirt is coming in the scraper bowl is another sign how things are going.On bigger machine watching the hoist cyclinders you could tell.Again with the lip up to the cross beam you can see how much dirt is going in the bowl,but in sucky dirt and mud it will try to suck deeper with the lip up.Theres where the feel comes also and timing ,when to know to close the lip down or open it up farther.Been in muddy cuts where you was loading the mud good then all of a sudden a bid chunk would start sliding in front of the bowl.Hopefully you was getting close to the end of the cut and could pickup and drag it out of the way.If not there was a good change it would stick you.
The biggest thing is getting started right.Coming in the cut close to the ground and as fast as you can,and in my days D9 or two picking you up you didn't want to get it stuck in the gorund to hard until you got picked up,then you let up on the throttle get set in,other push cat picks you up and adjust throttle and your off.Unless you hit a big boulder or rock.Another story right.
Always hated being push with at straight dozer,that when i wanted to get off and beat the crap out of some of them guys pushing me.Bang ,bang ,all day long.There was like everything a few,very few that even with a straight dozer could pick you up smooth with out hardly a nugde.My brother was one of them.:usa
personnally i love having a center bit, the only way to go. i try to argue my point to the maintenance boss no luck. i figured that the money you saved in the fuel consumption alone by cutting load times would pay for the upkeep on maintaining centerbits on our scrapers.
constructo you ever bring your load back to the cut? i seen it done a couple of times, usually by guys that showed up for work wearing their nice cowboy hats fancy boots nice shirt, you knew they just rolled in from a wild night,never even made it home to get work clothes.
yancy44mag
New Member
Frost Bits
we allways called frost bits riper points in ak and drop centers and people call the side cutters but when i grew up running scrapers we called them slober bits SEABEES CAN DO:usa
we allways called frost bits riper points in ak and drop centers and people call the side cutters but when i grew up running scrapers we called them slober bits SEABEES CAN DO:usa
Turbo21835
Senior Member
We always ran both. We usually ran two Terex Ts14Bs. We never knew which two we were going to get on the job. Sometimes we would get one with a frostbit on, and the other one wouldnt have one. It didnt really matter when we were running in softer material. If we got in hard material and couldnt get the shop to send a wrench out we had a tactic that took care of the problem. The one with the frostbit would make his first cut. Then he would come back to the cut, and move half a width over. After his second cut he had a nice "windrowed" piece between his cuts. The pan without the frostbit would follow behind and chew these windrows out.
When it comes to haul roads. We usually had to drag our own down. So we tended to run with the ejector forward for a good bit of the road. When we were getting close to a rough area we would raise the aprons and drag things out. I always tried to keep my apron closed though. The shock loads on a cable while the apron was open took its toll on the cable. This sucks when its policy for the operator to switch his own cables. Theres always tricks for that too. I would find a rock and try to get it back to the trailer. Then I would use the rock as a jack stand for the apron. This way its up rather than having the bowl up while your getting at the cable wedge.
As for pushcats. We always ran a straight blade. Either a D6R, Komatsu D85, or, my favorite, a D7H. I always had my pan operators keep moving. I would catch them. As for a smooth transition, this is simple. Keep the blade as high as you can. Try to catch the stinger with the cutting edge. Once youve made contact with the stinger lower the blade. This helps put weight on the stinger allowing the rear engine and tires put their power to the ground. The only reason I beat on a pan was the operator would do something wrong. Either he would be running away in the cut or he was doing something he shouldnt have been. I had one guy crying that I was hurting his back. He complained to the foreman and supervisor. So at different points during the day these guys would come into the cut in a pan. Neither of them had a problem. They stopped and asked me about it. I told them that a 627G in 2nd gear just wont stay in front of a D7H. Thats when the operator got his ass chewing. Good old job site communication, you run, I dont slow down to hook back up with that stinger. It gets the point across eventually.
When it comes to haul roads. We usually had to drag our own down. So we tended to run with the ejector forward for a good bit of the road. When we were getting close to a rough area we would raise the aprons and drag things out. I always tried to keep my apron closed though. The shock loads on a cable while the apron was open took its toll on the cable. This sucks when its policy for the operator to switch his own cables. Theres always tricks for that too. I would find a rock and try to get it back to the trailer. Then I would use the rock as a jack stand for the apron. This way its up rather than having the bowl up while your getting at the cable wedge.
As for pushcats. We always ran a straight blade. Either a D6R, Komatsu D85, or, my favorite, a D7H. I always had my pan operators keep moving. I would catch them. As for a smooth transition, this is simple. Keep the blade as high as you can. Try to catch the stinger with the cutting edge. Once youve made contact with the stinger lower the blade. This helps put weight on the stinger allowing the rear engine and tires put their power to the ground. The only reason I beat on a pan was the operator would do something wrong. Either he would be running away in the cut or he was doing something he shouldnt have been. I had one guy crying that I was hurting his back. He complained to the foreman and supervisor. So at different points during the day these guys would come into the cut in a pan. Neither of them had a problem. They stopped and asked me about it. I told them that a 627G in 2nd gear just wont stay in front of a D7H. Thats when the operator got his ass chewing. Good old job site communication, you run, I dont slow down to hook back up with that stinger. It gets the point across eventually.
RollOver Pete
Senior Member
Back in the day at the E.L. Yeager scraper races,
my partner and I would sometimes bring back just enough to pop a quick load and pass the pair in front of us....
Ya know how it is.... theres always gotta be someone messing with somebody on a dirt job.
Not that we (I) were ever guilty of such selfish and dangerous acts of push-pulling.:naughty
After all, it was the E.L. Yeager scraper races....
Thats still my story....and I'm sticking with it....:angel
ps...
#1312 was the rig I ran for a few years.
It was the only one with the fancy lil aluminum air cleaner thingy.
pss.....
Notice the fullness of the load!
Attachments
RollOver Pete
Senior Member
RollOver Pete
Senior Member
that is one impressive lineup! how many scrapers total?are they all Ds i couldnt quite read the side of ol 1312, pretty impressive load, i have never seen a d without a cab, those are my favorite kind of pics.what were all you guys building?
RollOver Pete
Senior Member
Those were 657B's.
IMHO, the best twin engine scraper ever made!
I don't remember exactly how many pairs Yeager had?
Maybe 8-10 pair...or 16-20 twin engine tractors.
They had a bunch of 651B's and E's.
The pics I have are of the Edison job in Anaheim Hills, Ca.
1991-1993
IMHO, the best twin engine scraper ever made!
I don't remember exactly how many pairs Yeager had?
Maybe 8-10 pair...or 16-20 twin engine tractors.
They had a bunch of 651B's and E's.
The pics I have are of the Edison job in Anaheim Hills, Ca.
1991-1993
Construct'O
Senior Member
Thanks for sharing the great pics as usual !!!!!!
I had to smile when you said "there always someone messing around on a dirtspread" How true, the races were.
I have done a few that wouldn't have been considered to cool now days ,but at the time,seemed with in reason! Because of who i was working with and for. If you know what i mean!
Biggest twin barrel i ever run,was 637C push and pulls,got to break in three new ones on the same job in 8 month.That was one of my highlights in my scraper career 37 years ago.:usa
I had to smile when you said "there always someone messing around on a dirtspread" How true, the races were.
I have done a few that wouldn't have been considered to cool now days ,but at the time,seemed with in reason! Because of who i was working with and for. If you know what i mean!
Biggest twin barrel i ever run,was 637C push and pulls,got to break in three new ones on the same job in 8 month.That was one of my highlights in my scraper career 37 years ago.:usa
Great pics ROP, the scraper is king in California thats for sure. Downunder we call the centre edge when extended the "stinger" and the push pull hook is the bail. Any one else got some big scoop fleet pics from SoCal?? or any where else.
surfer-joe
Senior Member
Yeager sure loved their open ROPS Cats, eh Pete?
looks like the most perfect scraper setup i have ever seen,rolling hills,no rocks,everone wearing tshirts,no dust what a thing of beauty. plenty of petersons for the single engine guys, do you work on jobs like that all the time? for all those scrapers i think i only seen one blade.i ran a 937c for 8 years not a pushpull,run alot of 31,41,51cs and liked them all but the 37 was always my favorite before i die i wish i could run a 57.you said the b was your favorite,these last few years ive been runnibg newer equipment 37g,e,e2 even our d was new to me when i started,ive come to really like the series 2 e its still not a 57 but at least its not a 27. especially like climate control and tunes,just wandering what you thought of any of the newer scrapers?i could look at pictures like those all day, if your gonna move big dirt you gotta have big iron.