Tow behind padfoot/sheepsfoot compactor

[Welder Dave]

Oh no, that's what I expected. You're using about the worst wire possible unfortunately. E71T-GS doesn't even meet any AWS specs. E71T-11 does allow for multipass welds but it's still not designed for higher strength dynamic loads. E71T-GS is probably worse than welding with 6013 stick rods. Sorry for being a little harsh but you've got some big heavy pieces and you're welding them with wire designed for sheet metal and very light duty applications. In the field it's not too bad if it breaks but pulling it on the road at higher speed with a little bouncing could be really suspect. Kind of comparable to the tire with the cut on the sidewall. It holds air but would you trust it for long? It's too bad you didn't ask for recommendations on what wire or even type of machine to use before you started this project.

If your liner was arcing you should change it. It's possible it has arced on the inside as well and that is causing the wire to not feed properly when you first start.

 

[ippielb]

Oh no, that's what I expected. You're using about the worst wire possible unfortunately. E71T-GS doesn't even meet any AWS specs. E71T-11 does allow for multipass welds but it's still not designed for higher strength dynamic loads. E71T-GS is probably worse than welding with 6013 stick rods. Sorry for being a little harsh but you've got some big heavy pieces and you're welding them with wire designed for sheet metal and very light duty applications. In the field it's not too bad if it breaks but pulling it on the road at higher speed with a little bouncing could be really suspect. Kind of comparable to the tire with the cut on the sidewall. It holds air but would you trust it for long? It's too bad you didn't ask for recommendations on what wire or even type of machine to use before you started this project.

If your liner was arcing you should change it. It's possible it has arced on the inside as well and that is causing the wire to not feed properly when you first start.

Well thats unfortunate, before i purchased any wire i used google and searched 7018 equivalent flux core wire, and it came up with E71T so me not knowing any better seen the GS and went with that.

Looks like i'll be redoing a lot then, the drums were at least put together with solid wire in the shop.

You never mentioned what wire i should be looking for to replace my GS with.

Doing reading and T-8 wires were the ones i was suppose to use, but i cant even use them. 8" spool is as big as i can fit in my welder, and 0.045 tips are the biggest tips i can find. Not to mention i can't even seem to find a supplier that has it local to me.

 

[Welder Dave]

I didn't mention what wire would have been better because the welds were already done. You found the answer yourself though.

The numbers or letters after the E71T are the most important. The E means electrode (electric welding) the 70 means 70,000 tensile and the 1 means all position. The numbers after basically tell the type of loads and applications the wire is for. The T means tubular (flux-core). E71T- 8 like Lincoln NR232 or 233 would have been a better choice but knowing the GS is only recommended for single pass welds should have been a red flag. Don't feel too bad though, I was in a welding supply once and the guy at the counter was absolutely clueless. A customer asked for some 6010. He went and looked and they didn't have it. He came back with some 6013 and said it's only 1 number different. I just kind of bit my tongue thinking what an idiot to be selling in a welding supply. The 1 number different is the most important of all the numbers.

A good way to tell if an elecrotrode or wire is designed for dynamic loads is to look at the spec. sheet. If it it lists low temperature impact strength values it is designed for higher strength dynamic loads.

I think most of your welds will likely be OK if you used a lot of preheat but the more critical ones like on the wheel lift or main pull hitch you should at least reinforce them with 7018 or equivalent wire. Even just welding an inch or 2 at the ends of the existing welds with the stronger rods or wire will add strength. Would be best to do a little grinding and weld towards the center. If you can move the packer into the shop you could use dual-shield wire. You could even use solid Mig wire turned up hot as it is basically equivalent to 7018 if done properly. .035" would work. I wouldn't use a smaller size.

 

[Welder Dave]

If possible use the holes on the shanks to mount them. Maybe even burn a second hole and make them elongated to compensate for wear. You only need them on one side. I'd suggest the back side so they clean any packed mud the quickest. DON'T weld them. They are spring steel which requires special rods and procedures to weld. If not done properly will snap off pretty easily. What you could do is weld a couple pieces of all thread or grade 5 or lower bolts on the frame to hold the shanks. Grade 8 bolts could snap off easily too.

 

[ippielb]

I didn't mention what wire would have been better because the welds were already done. You found the answer yourself though.

The numbers or letters after the E71T are the most important. The E means electrode (electric welding) the 70 means 70,000 tensile and the 1 means all position. The numbers after basically tell the type of loads and applications the wire is for. The T means tubular (flux-core). E71T- 8 like Lincoln NR232 or 233 would have been a better choice but knowing the GS is only recommended for single pass welds should have been a red flag. Don't feel too bad though, I was in a welding supply once and the guy at the counter was absolutely clueless. A customer asked for some 6010. He went and looked and they didn't have it. He came back with some 6013 and said it's only 1 number different. I just kind of bit my tongue thinking what an idiot to be selling in a welding supply. The 1 number different is the most important of all the numbers.

A good way to tell if an elecrotrode or wire is designed for dynamic loads is to look at the spec. sheet. If it it lists low temperature impact strength values it is designed for higher strength dynamic loads.

I think most of your welds will likely be OK if you used a lot of preheat but the more critical ones like on the wheel lift or main pull hitch you should at least reinforce them with 7018 or equivalent wire. Even just welding an inch or 2 at the ends of the existing welds with the stronger rods or wire will add strength. Would be best to do a little grinding and weld towards the center. If you can move the packer into the shop you could use dual-shield wire. You could even use solid Mig wire turned up hot as it is basically equivalent to 7018 if done properly. .035" would work. I wouldn't use a smaller size.

Honestly, i didn't even know what the GS meant. All i seen was the e71T, being in an extreme rush needing to get back to the farm for seeding i grabbed it and left. Not many options for me to find wire around.

I have an old Forney stick welder, but needs some work, new plug wired in and electricity is the last thing i went to mess with, especially a 240v outlet. Last time i used it was probably 7 years ago. 7018 rods on a stick welder was by far a better option but it takes so long to stick weld compared to a mig and i have been on a tight schedule, only able to work on it between loads.

Most of the welds i did with the flux core wire were on 1/4" to 1/4" steel. Except on the back of the packer on the 3/4" plate, and the wheel lift bar, but i heavily gouged that down to a point and built it up, with the wrong wire. So i'll be gouging that out to redo if i do decide to use it. The heavier welding on the drum and the axles/plates was done with solid wire with mig mix gold shielding gas.

I tried calling around today and i wasn't able to find someone who knew what they were talking about for what wire i should be using, and none in the 0.035 or 0.045 wire sizes, everything available was very much larger.

I am definitely going to take your advice and take everything apart and redo my welds again. Grind them out and reweld them with the appropriate wire. I purposely haven't welded on the main pull hitch. It is left unwelded exactly like it was when it was a rod weeder. I purposely attached the support bar with the bolts to the hitch because i didn't want to weld it to effect the structure of the weld onto the towbar.

 

[ippielb]

If possible use the holes on the shanks to mount them. Maybe even burn a second hole and make them elongated to compensate for wear. You only need them on one side. I'd suggest the back side so they clean any packed mud the quickest. DON'T weld them. They are spring steel which requires special rods and procedures to weld. If not done properly will snap off pretty easily. What you could do is weld a couple pieces of all thread or grade 5 or lower bolts on the frame to hold the shanks. Grade 8 bolts could snap off easily too.

I was thinking about sandwiching them between the cross bar and another plate that i would be able to tighten bolts to the crossbar with. My dad came and looked at what i was doing because we just finished seeding and he said "just weld the suckers on" and i thought the that you couldn't weld cultivator shanks. I figured that they were spring steel. But didn't know you couldn't weld spring steel.

Do you think the all thread when welded to the cross bar would bend and wreck the 1/4" steel? I never thought about putting allthread on. I was going to try and cut a piece of 1/2" steel drill and tap it for a bolt. But allthread is WAY easier.

By the way, for anyone curious this is the same model implement that i start with. I just cut it all up and used majority of the steel.

 

[Welder Dave]

The numbers on rods and wire can be confusing. Sometimes you'll see a chart showing what different stick rods are used for but seldom for wire. A lot of people even on the Welding web only consider the tensile strength. I got tired of explaining mostly to one person that tensile strength is only a very small factor in determining the strength of welds and consumables. I think if you just gouged out a couple inches on each end of the welds you need to be the strongest would be sufficient.

I think if the all thread or bolts had good welds would work. Material would have to be wet to stick to the packer wheels so it wouldn't put too much stress on the bolts to scrape it off. Bolts with the heads cut off would be better because the threaded portion only has to be a thread or 2 below the thickness of the shanks. It could even be higher if you used washers then there's no notch effect from the threads right next to the heat affected zone at the edge of the welds.

Spring steel can be welded but requires specialty rods and procedures for it to be successful. Not really worth trying if there's other options.

 

[Nige]

As a suggestion if you decide on some improvements to the design you could consider something like the (not to scale) illustration below for reinforcing gussets at the corners of the tubular frame. They would spread the stresses out far better than the rectangular plates you used initially.

 

[ippielb]

The numbers on rods and wire can be confusing. Sometimes you'll see a chart showing what different stick rods are used for but seldom for wire. A lot of people even on the Welding web only consider the tensile strength. I got tired of explaining mostly to one person that tensile strength is only a very small factor in determining the strength of welds and consumables. I think if you just gouged out a couple inches on each end of the welds you need to be the strongest would be sufficient.

I'm struggling to find your recommended NR232 or NR233 in 0.045". Everything i can find on the internet is larger diameter.

As a suggestion if you decide on some improvements to the design you could consider something like the (not to scale) illustration below for reinforcing gussets at the corners of the tubular frame. They would spread the stresses out far better than the rectangular plates you used initially.

View attachment 286942

Would those be welded into the corners? Or remove the rectangular pieces and replace them with those?

 

[Welder Dave]

It looks like the smallest T-8 wire is .068".Edit: Dual-shield comes in .045" in 15lb. spools that would fit your machine, Hobart Excel-Arc 71. Too bad your project is almost finished. It would have been a good excuse to upgrade your welding machine(s). Maybe you can find someone to fix your stick welder plug?

The gussets Nige suggested could go inside if there's room or on top and bottom of the frame. The concave curve is so the packer wheels won't hit them.

 

[Nige]

Does it make more sense if the tubes are superimposed over the gusset.?

 

[ippielb]

It looks like the smallest T-8 wire is .068".Edit: Dual-shield comes in .045" in 15lb. spools that would fit your machine, Hobart Excel-Arc 71. Too bad your project is almost finished. It would have been a good excuse to upgrade your welding machine(s). Maybe you can find someone to fix your stick welder plug?

The gussets Nige suggested could go inside if there's room or on top and bottom of the frame. The concave curve is so the packer wheels won't hit them.

Whats the benefits of doing dual shield vs solid wire? I dont think i'll be tackling any projects like this for a while. Caused me quite the headache now with using the wrong wire. I do have room in between the drum and the frame.

Does it make more sense if the tubes are superimposed over the gusset.?

View attachment 286946

Yep that helps, in a perfect world i would've gotten those shapes. But the amount of material those would've taken would've doubled the price. For right now i may be able to make a gusset in the corner to fill in like yours does, with some pieces that i cut out for where i put the bushings between the two cross bars. They're 3" wide, and 1.5" down. I could cut them to fit snug into the corner maybe.

 

[Welder Dave]

Dual-shield has better penetration and less chance for cold lap because it basically runs in spray transfer.

 

[ippielb]

So, i got a cord put on the welder with the proper plug. With my new 1/8" 7018 rods i got a couple rods into welding. Ground off most of the old weld and then put a bead or 3 or 7018 in its place. First rod i did i commented to my dad, wow its so easy to get a brand new rod started(never welded with new rods before).

On the 4th rod right in the middle of welding, it felt like the welder lost half its power, can't hold an arc at 110amps. It wont strike and start arcing, it sticks EXTREMELY bad, even when lightly feather light striking a match. Put a handful of rods in an oven and heated them up thinking it was moisture, with no change. Tried putting it up to 180 amps, and it still wont even arc, i could barely get it to start welding. Once i got it welding i had to hold the rod so it was almost submerged in the puddle or else i would lose arc. And then most of the time the rod would freeze in the puddle.

I figured since the welder is so old and hasn't been used for quite a few years, it kicked the bucket. So i bought one off the classifieds that was functioning. Same Forney brand, but 225 amp welder instead of 180.

Got it home and tried it out, and it wouldn't weld right, just like the old one. Same issues, no arc, impossible to strike and start the arc without it sticking. Even cranking it up to 225 it keeps sticking and wont let me stick out hardly at all.

Even took it over to another shop on the farm and same issue. I've wasted twenty rods now, and got myself hot under the collar. Here's a picture of the first couple welds that i did BEFORE the welder started acting up. This is 1/8" 7018, on 1/4" steel. You can see to the right of the weld, i could not get the rods to start arcing. I lightly dragged them down the steel to try and wouldn't start arcing.

 

[Welder Dave]

What size breaker were you running off? It sounds like insufficient input current and/or an over heated breaker. Maybe bad cable connections on the stinger or ground clamp. Can you rent an engine drive welder? It would solve any electrical issues. You might have exceeded the duty cycle but with 1/8" rods shouldn't have.

 

[ippielb]

What size breaker were you running off? It sounds like insufficient input current and/or an over heated breaker. Maybe bad cable connections on the stinger or ground clamp. Can you rent an engine drive welder? It would solve any electrical issues. You might have exceeded the duty cycle but with 1/8" rods shouldn't have.

I believe it was a 50 amp breaker, it never tripped the breaker, but i did go and flip it off and left it for a while, then turned it back on to with no change. Tried plugging the welder into a different plug, with no change, it was less amperage and did flip the breaker eventually.

I used the set of almost new cables that came with the welder i bought, and the almost new cables from the old welder with no change.

I also cleaned the cable plugs, male and female ends. Old welder where you move the cables into different holes to change it.

Electrician is coming out Thursday to take a look at the breakers to see if theres something going wrong.

 

[Welder Dave]

With the kind of projects you do you should look for a better than bargain basement welder. An inverter would use a lot less power but if you get your power checked out and it's good look for a used Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC or Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC. A good welder would pay for itself in 1 project. I don't really understand people who have money for equipment but never seem to have any to buy the proper welding equipment for their needs.

 

[ippielb]

This is the welder, not some cheap Chinese junk like the new forneys. Will have to wait and see what the electrician can find out. In the mean time i'll get all my mud scrapers cut out.

I did go to the store and found grade 5 all thread. 3/4", i got 9 feet of it. still debating on how i will mount the scrapers. The flat plates that were holding the shanks onto the cultivator, well i just cut them all off. I'm thinking i'll flip them upside down and then use those to sandwich the scrapers tight.

I just seen a post online saying that one guy couldn't get his forney welder to run ac/dc 7018's, could strictly only run AC 7018 rods

 

[Welder Dave]

The older Forney's were just basic AC buzz boxes. If you tried a new Forney DC inverter you'd never go back to AC. Should be able to find a good used Idealarc or Dialarc AC/DC in the $500 range or less. You'd be amazed how much nicer and easier it is to weld with DC current. Night and day difference with the right machine.

 

[ippielb]

The older Forney's were just basic AC buzz boxes. If you tried a new Forney DC inverter you'd never go back to AC. Should be able to find a good used Idealarc or Dialarc AC/DC in the $500 range or less. You'd be amazed how much nicer and easier it is to weld with DC current.

I just looked on the classifieds, no luck to find one. If i could find one one for under $500 i would buy it if they're as good as you say, but there isn't one within 500km.