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Case 1450 suction filter?

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Thanks a bunch guys. So the theory is when the fluid warms up inside the tranny it's leaking past the seals. Forward seal more so than reverse. And it's all internal so I'm not seeing what's happening. I told my buddy with a cat 307 mini he said he would bring it over if I needed. I like the idea of blocking it up just worried it might fall or kids playing around it. I'll read up some more in the book so I know what I'm looking at. Thanks again. I will not give up!!
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
So are you referring to the two clutches in the back shown in this picture?IMG_1306.jpg I'm guessing these are what you are talking about. And there are internal seals inside this housing that go around a shaft or valve of some sort. I'm still looking at the book trying to locate these so I can see a breakdown and what to expect. Thanks again. Sorry if the picture is too big. I hope I didn't break any rules.
 

Wolfe Grading

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Snow Camp,N.C.
Occupation
Grading & Construction & Winery
So are you referring to the two clutches in the back shown in this picture?View attachment 121133 I'm guessing these are what you are talking about. And there are internal seals inside this housing that go around a shaft or valve of some sort. I'm still looking at the book trying to locate these so I can see a breakdown and what to expect. Thanks again. Sorry if the picture is too big. I hope I didn't break any rules.
There are two seal rings under each cover,three under center cover,fluid goes through hole in shaft in between seal rings,comes out in between seal rings in clutch housing to engage clutches.Center cover is hi range/lo range.Also two more in front of trans.1st.& 2nd. for each track.These rings are steel.When you take off cover they will stay on shaft unless they are broken in to.They are broke sometimes where they snap together to lock in groove on shaft.
 

KevinArmentrout

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Ok. Yeah, I found the chapter and diagrams I was looking for. I was looking last night and I saw the exploded view of the clutches and how to rebuild them. They have a wavy ring, teflon seals, etc. I also saw the two seals you are referring to. Good to know your just talking about the seals in the front. From looking at the diagrams, I saw they used a press with a piston ring compressor to press down while they took the snap ring off. I guess the bearings are also in plain view when I take the caps off so I can inspect them too. Would it also be a good idea to blow compressed air through the hole in the shaft to clean out? I'll take plenty of pics when I am able to get another person to help me with the counterweight. Looks like it's 3000# I don't suppose you have a picture of the weight blocked up? I also have to go and buy a decent bottle jack.

Thanks for all of your help!
 
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Wolfe Grading

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Snow Camp,N.C.
Occupation
Grading & Construction & Winery
Hey Wolfe,

Looks like part #2 are the ones you are talking about.....View attachment 121167

Have a safe 4th!

Kevin.You have a safe 4th. too.We will be working our Weekend job.We have a winery/Wolfe Wines.And yes those are the rings.Hope that is your problem.If the caps have a deep groove I will find the name of the place that rebuilt mine.The caps a very costly.You could check the ones in front first The ones in rear have shims try not to tear them!!! As for the weight mine only weighs 2900#Ha! Ha! I got it off and on one with my 850 and chain but it was not easy to get it close cause of canopy.As for blocking its easy to take off but you have to be very careful going back need help to guide you.If you are on concrete slab its safer.I still would not want anyone hanging it!!I use 6 by 6 wood blocks and steel shims on each side as close as I can to front,then a 20 ton bottle jack under hitch with blocking back up!!Make everything good and tight loosen all bolts a little bit first to make sure it don't move.Mine has always sat there very well.A forklift would be safer!Let me know if I can help .
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
One last question Wolfe before I tackle this. Would it be better to take the hitch off so I would have full access to the bottom of the weight, and would probably be easier to block up. Is that what you did when you did yours?

I bet the winery was packed this past weekend!:usa
 
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Wolfe Grading

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Snow Camp,N.C.
Occupation
Grading & Construction & Winery
Kevin,I did not take off hitch,that is where I put my jack right near the pin hole.The weight of the weight is towards the back so the hitch provides leverage.I will try to make a drawing and send it.The weight is the worst part of the job.You could unhook one of the lines at control valve that goes to the cover then put it in gear to send fluid to the other line on that cover and see if there is any fluid going past seal rings to unhooked line, with tracks blocked of course.If you have a Case parts book it tells what lines are what.Like take off left forward line at control valve, then put machine in left reverse.
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Well good news! My buddy showed up yesterday with his Mini and looks like were all set for taking it off today. Just going to run a cable through the center hole and unbolt from there. Should be straight forward. I feel more comfortable having something that will hold the weight of it now. Looks like I need another piece of equipment! I'll let you know the results. I plan on taking all the caps off and checking everything while I have the weight off just to button up everything that could be wrong. I'll take some pics of the caps too and let you know if they are grooved or not. Thanks bud.
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
I took the caps off the left and right caps and the metal seals were fine. I didn't take the center one off yet. Do you think I need to check the center seals and the ones on the front too?
 

sheepfoot

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,259
Location
wilmington nc
Seals

Kevin, I would pull them since the weight is off, you need to pull the front two caps and check. The gasket is preset for those caps, when you remove the rear caps upper and before installing you should bump the shaft to the front, then install the cap and tighten to spec with out the shim pack, use a feeler gauge to check the clearance and adjust shims as needed. I always use red locktite on the shims and gaskets, use new copper washers. The H/L range end cap when removed needs to also be shimmed, you need to set the end play on the shaft with a dial gauge for correct clearance while setting it up, once set up remove and apply red locktite to the shims and new copper washers tighten down to spec and recheck end play on the shaft. I still think your mod valve has issues, did you ever unhook the mod rod and try shifting to see if the pressure stayed up. A pic of your control valve looking down at the mod valve would help, is it the old style mod or new. Haven't had much time lately to be on line much, but your vid of you shifting looks like the mod valve is having some issues.
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Hey Sheepfoot,

thank you for the response. I just came inside from working on it. It was every bit of 98 degrees with 90% humidity. I didn't see this post before I put the caps back on. I'm glad you told me. Do you know what section or page the reference for the clearance for the shims are? I will look again. The book is rather large and intimidating lol! Also, how in the world do you get to the front caps? I just took the seat off hoping there would be right there....nope. I got underneath and was looking up and can see them but is going to be hell to get to. I also can't get the front caps as clean as I did the rear. When I took the center cap off the rear the metal seals were fine. I'm guessing the grooves in the seals where there is a gap don't have to be off centered like piston rings do but I did anyway. So when I take the caps off the rear again, push the shaft to it's forward most position and torq to spec without the shims and use a feeler gauge to check the clearance between the cap and the housing. replace with new copper washers. Check... When you said use locktite on the shims, I'm assuming you mean like the permatex gasket sealer but the locktite brand... I keep thinking locktite as in for bolts.. ha!
I can take a few pics looking down at the control valve no problem. I just have to take the batteries out and the tray again, which I should to replace all the hoses anyway. I could unhook the modulator detent or rod but I would have to run the loader until it starts acting up. I wish it acted up right away. Every time I need to test a fix I have to go dig dirt for an hour or so, but I even noticed that when I first start it and put in gear it does take a few seconds for the pressure to build up, maybe 5 seconds.... and then it's fine until an hour or so. I would have thought last week when it has hot as hades it would have acted up sooner, cause the fluid would get hotter faster but it was the same as any other day..... It must be strictly a pressure thing or the modulator valve timing....
Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's suggestions and guidance. Really helps me learn about this machine and can pass along the knowledge to my kids when they inherit this old beast!
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Ok, I found what you were talking about in the book with checking the feeler gauge and the torq specs. One question I have is when you check end play with the dial indicator at the end of the shaft the shaft movement inward and outward is suppose to be .016 - .020. I'm assuming that's what that means.Looks like the torque specs are 35 - 42ftlbs for the end caps.
 
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KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
1455B transmission(Small).jpg

I'll take a pic tomorrow, but searching the web, I found this pic from a distance it looks like the same one as this 1455b. Don't know if this helps or not, if the old style is similar to the new style or not...
 

sheepfoot

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,259
Location
wilmington nc
trans H/L shaft end play

Yes, Kevin with a indicator on the end of shaft pull it out then in to get the correct free movement. Add or subtract shims as needed. The shim pack that is on there should be close, we would check the reading before removing the H/L housing to see how close it is to start with. saves some time. You have to have that clearance. Getting back to the delay, the thing is it's both tracks, the common issue is the mod unseats to make the soft shift but the plunger does not return to seat and allow pressure to build back so it will move. It seems like it's either sticking and the rev throws just a little more pressure at it to force it to seat. Did you ever hook a gauge in at the inlet to the control valve fitting and have a pressure reading in the cab with you, it would be good to know if your loosing your in flow from the pump when this happens. The issue with the pic is the type of mod you have, adjustable external nut or none external adjustment that has to be shimmed with a weight block ?.
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Hey Sheepfoot,

I didn't have a chance to take the battery tray off. It was pouring rain yesterday and I didn't have time, but today I went out to check the shims out to make sure they are close. So I unbolted the caps, took the shims out and put cap back on and torqued to 5ft lbs, loosened bolts, and reapplied 2.5ft lbs to each. It called for inch lbs but I don't have a torq wrench for inch lbs. I have an antique craftsman.. lol. Anywho, I came up with about .026 on the feeler gauge. The book says to add .016-.020. So at most I would be .046 with shims... Both the upper left and right caps were the same assuming the torque was the same on all bolts... here are the pics of the left and right shims... one is .046 and the other is .073. Pictures might be upside down. I also attached an image of one of the caps and front of control valve. I can get you the valve from the top tomorrow. Seems like there is a big difference in the two sides of shims, but was probably ok to begin with...IMG_1329.jpgIMG_1324.jpgIMG_1325.jpgIMG_1326.jpgIMG_1328.jpg
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Hey Sheepfoot,

Heres a pic of the control valve and the modulator. I think your question was can I disconnect it and It looks like I can. Just a cotter pin and the rod. I need to run up to northern tool and get a pressure gauge and get a hose built so I can check some pressures. I buttoned up all three caps tonight with gasket sealer and torqued all bolts back down. I still need to check the front caps if you think I should.IMG_1331.jpgIMG_1330.jpg
 

KevinArmentrout

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Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
68
Location
King George, Virginia
Hey Sheepfoot,

Should I just unhook the control valve rod and go ride around and see if it does the same thing? Since I am new to this. The modulator valve just regulates the oil to go into gear. With it disconnected will it move at all? Sorry for the really dumb questions, I just don't have any experience with this. Thanks for hangin in there and being a trooper! I'm still going to make a gauge, but they got us on some stupid pay scale and seems like I don't get paid very often..Funds low if ya know what I mean.

I'm sure I'm getting the same look as I give my kids when they say something that disregarded the entire thought process! LOL!
 
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